Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
A Call To Arms
The Tryanny Response Team takes on the Million Moms.
by Kay Rios
When the Million Moms gather for the Mother's Day rally at the state capitol in Denver, they can expect a strong showing. Not everyone, however, will be supporting the Moms' push for gun control. On the other side stands the Tyranny Response Team (TRT) whose members plan to show up "in full force" to protest what they see as an erosion of individual rights and a threat to the Bill of Rights.
Both sides may disagree on the intent of the event, but both promise an action-packed day. It's a positive effort for the Moms, says Marilee Louis, co-president of the Denver chapter. "We want to celebrate where we've come in the past year. We helped pass Amendment 22 [the law that passed last November, which requires gun show sellers to perform criminal background checks]. We worked for both Republicans in the primary and Democrats in the general election. We changed the nature of the senate. We've maintained a balance. So this is about celebration," she says.
But that's not exactly what the TRT has in mind, according to president and spokesperson, Bob Glass. "They want to walk through the park, hold hands, sing Kumbaya and have a lovely time. We're going to show them that there are consequences to taking away other people's rights."
The Moms know the opposition will be present, but that doesn't change their outlook. According to Valerie DiBenedetto, president of the Larimer County chapter, "The focus is not, like last year, on political but more on remembering. We're focusing on victim support and remembering those who have died."
The national march has been cancelled, and the emphasis is on local efforts this year. In Colorado, the game plan includes an hour and a half of speakers and entertainment beginning at 2 p.m. Emcee Dani Newsum, Colorado State Senate majority media relations director, will welcome musical guests Hazel Miller and Liz Barnez, as well as a variety of speakers, including Dottie Lamm, Ollie Phason (Broderick Bell's mother) and pediatrician Eric Sigel.
As a bell strikes ten times, ten doves will be released in honor of the children the Moms say are killed by gun violence every day. The TRT has plans for its own show.
"We will show up in force, and it will be confrontational," says Glass. "We're going to cause them to have a very bad day. We are going to get ugly and get in their face."
Glass has made that statement before, although what "getting in their face" means is up for interpretation.
For some TRT members, it simply means being heard. "I doubt that we will ever convince even one of the Million Moms, but at least we will let the rest of the world know there is another side," says TRT member Stephen Ziegenhagen.
What can the TRT gain by interrupting the event? "The thing we have to comfort ourselves with is that we can let the world, the politicians and the Moms know they are not going to go unopposed."
Does that opposition involve violence? That's the question everyone is asking. "Do we have plans to break someone's legs? Of course not," Glass says. "Do we plan on hurting anybody on Mother's Day? Absolutely not. But whenever you have people on different sides of an emotionally charged issue, people lose their cool. Have we ever done anything like that in the past? Absolutely not. Have they? Absolutely, yes."
Glass refers to a couple of previous confrontations in which TRT members claim to have been the recipients of physical abuse by anti-gun advocates. The most recent incident took place at the Plymouth Congregational Church in Fort Collins, where Million Moms member Cherie Trine was accused of striking TRT member Rex Kroemer with a clipboard.
At a planning meeting for last year's march, Moms members arrived to a huge turnout of TRT members. A confrontation ensued and, of course, both sides have their versions. The TRT maintains they were simply there to observe and, if given the chance, enter into a debate.
The Moms, however, stress that the behavior was loud, abusive and intrusive. In the middle of the exchange, member Cherie Trine says she attempted to give TRT members a clipboard on which to write their names. Somehow, the clipboard ended up in front of a video camera held by Rex Kroemer, who claims he was struck by the clipboard--or at least had the camera shoved into his eye. Trine says she never touched him.
Charges were filed against her but were vacated before going to court. For the Moms, it was a victory and a statement of innocence. For the TRT, it was just another statement of government manipulation and prejudice against their group. In either case, the situation did nothing to improve communication between the groups, which the upcoming event seeks to mend.
For both groups, the event is also about gaining support and becoming stronger as organizations. "We're saying to people, 'We want you to come out and demonstrate that there is another side,'" says Ziegenhagen. "There is a debate that needs to go on. If you lose your freedoms and you didn't try to stop it, then you can't complain."
Just as Ziegenhagen hopes to attract additional supporters, the Moms believe the event will also serve their purpose. "The rally is to tell people our goals," says Louis. "Our goals for the next year are education and legislation. We see ourselves as watchdogs. We want to prevent situations that are detrimental to our young people. Guns are our focus, especially the easy access to guns that gives these kids the opportunity to act."
The TRT's goals are, of course, very different.
"Basically, we are raising the price of tyranny," Glass says. "It's nice to hold hands and sing slogans, but when you have to look in the face of the person whose rights you are taking away, that changes the equation. We'll be forcing them to look at the negative fallout."
While there are those who do not look forward to the appearance of the TRT, some of the Moms feel it will be beneficial. "I love that there is a continuing debate," says DiBenedetto. "It can make one more person think about it. I hope it's an issue that is never taken off the editorial page. I hope it's an issue that continues to be debated."
Debate, itself, is another issue. Glass maintains he has long challenged Moms representatives to debate but has been refused. "They have been ordered or, at least, instructed by the leadership not to talk to us or even have eye contact. When Cherie Trine whacked Rex with the clipboard, I tried to talk to one of them. I said, 'Hey, pull up a chair and let's talk.' She started to but was pulled away."
While that's not quite the version coming from the other side, Moms representatives admit they won't enter into debate.
"We talked about that at a meeting," says Louis. "We thought about it seriously but then decided that the answer is 'no.' This is a group that has decided they will be everywhere we are. They will be in our face. And they have every right to protest, but that's not what they are doing. They are trying to stop our voice and intimidate us. They want to stop what we've set out to do, and I don't want to dignify their actions. Why reward bad behavior?"
Trine, who has been at the center of the Fort Collins controversy, agrees. "For some reason, people feel it's important that we should be communicating with each other and agreeing. I don't think it's important that we agree. It's the public dialogue that's important."
Trine feels another side is being overlooked. "There's a hidden story here about abuse. Some of the tactics they use are very similar to abusive situations. I think there are some people with whom you'll never agree. You will never get Democrats and Republicans to agree. That's okay. But these guys are bullies. You can't have a very good relationship with a bully."
For Paula Sacks, founder of the Larimer County chapter, it's more than that. "Every bit of energy or thought I give to the TRT takes away from the Moms and what I am trying to do; so I just don't think about them."
Rationalizations, says Glass. "The real reasons they don't want to debate is they don't have any facts. All they have are lies--damn lies and misrepresented statistics. There aren't ten children dying every day. A lot of these are 17-, 18- and 19-year-olds that are dying in drug wars. They are not children. The actual number of children is more like 35 or 40 a year. So let's be honest with the statistics. These [people dying] are criminals involved in gang activity."
But even one is too many, say the Moms, and there is no discussion on that point. "Every time a child is killed in a school, it is one of our children," says DiBenedetto.
Glass agrees it's a problem. "We have a situation in this country where we have innocent people getting hurt and killed by evil people. That's a bad thing. Kids getting killed by guns is a bad thing. I don't think gun owners love their kids any less. What separates us is that we understand that a quick fix will not work and will create a dangerous situation down the road."
He maintains there are other ways to handle the situation: punish those who commit the crimes. The gun laws are a knee-jerk reaction with far-reaching implications, he says. Those implications involve government interference and infringement on personal freedoms, which is what he believes the public should be discussing. Again, a debate would help focus the discussion and clear up the bad rap the TRT has received, he says.
"For the most part, the standard media likes to portray gun owners as inarticulate rednecks, anti-Semitic, racists. So when someone like myself flies in the face of that image, they tend to 'spike' it."
He gives examples. "After the Oklahoma City bombing, the Rocky Mountain News interviewed me for front page. They asked if I was a militia member. I said, 'No.' The story said, 'He wouldn't admit if he was a militia member.'"
Another instance came from a protest to pending legislation. "I was wearing L.L. Bean pants and a t-shirt. The story came out saying … 'Bob Glass, clad in camouflage . . . '"
Glass believes his poor image originated from the media interpretations and has carried over to all TRT members. Not so, say the Moms. There are also the first-hand experiences, which have created the image they hold.
"The TRT are very intimidating," says DiBenedetto. "I can tell you after they came into our meeting [at the church in Fort Collins], my heart was beating like never before. They are scary. They came in and wanted to tell us what we were going to do in our meeting. They wanted to debate, but that wasn't what our meeting was about. Do I want to go face to face with these guys? I don't. They are very scary."
Louis adds, "It's very difficult, because when you try to say something and you see this anger on their faces, that shuts down communication. And they aren't listening."
Trine agrees. "I have had dialogue with them, and they say, 'You want to take our guns away,' and I say, 'No, I don't.' We talked specifically about Amendment 22, but it doesn't matter. They just want to believe what they want to believe. They are bullies, and guns are the ultimate bullying tools. It's the bullying that is particularly of concern. I don't' think all gun owners are bullies. I think there are a lot of reasonable gun owners or Amendment 22 would not have passed."
While DiBenedetto won't debate its members, she doesn't believe the TRT should be silenced. "I believe very strongly that they have a right to protest what I believe. They can be outside of my meetings and make all the noise they want. They have a right to free speech, but they don't have the right to bully us."
Intimidation, she says, is part of the basic problem.
"That bully situation is what has prompted some of these situations with these kids. But the TRT members are adults, and yet, they don't know how to behave."
Again, the TRT members insist they are merely exercising their rights, and it's not a personal attack. "They are not the enemy," Kroemer says. "They are being used in this battle. They are actually in the middle because they are trying to take care of their children."
What about the perception of being threatened? "We're very passionate about our cause," says Kroemer. "I can't speak for the others, but my First Amendment right stops at the end of their [the Moms'] nose. But I will push my rights to that end."
Glass doesn't see the Moms as enemies. But he qualifies, "There are two dramatically different levels in the Million Moms: leadership and rank and file. The rank and file are [sic] misguided, but they are well intentioned.
They are women who are upset about violence, and rightfully so. They are fearful for their children, and rightfully so. They want to do something and, rightfully so. But they are misguided. They are dupes of the leadership."
Leadership is another subject entirely, he says. "These are manipulative, deceitful fascists. The very inception of the Million Moms was founded on a lie. Donna Dees Thomases, the founder, says she is a typical housewife who's never been politically active. That's just not true. She was a professional public relations specialist for Dan Rather and also a former Capitol Hill staff member for the Democratic Party. This is an extension of the Democratic National Committee. But you don't hear about that."
Glass levels a number of accusations–based on funding and background supporters-- against the leadership of the organization. "They are not a grassroots movement."
As in most cases involving two opposing forces, other groups are forced to stand the middle ground. In this case, it's the police. Fort Collins Police Department was drawn into the skirmish at Plymouth Congregational Church. They were caught off-guard by what they found.
The pastor of the church and Moms officials asked TRT members to leave. They refused. That's when the incident between Trine and Kroemer took place. Some Moms say the police should have removed the TRT. But there was some confusion, according to Chief Dennis Harrison.
"The night in question, our supervisor believed that since this [the meeting] was a public invitation [it appeared in the local newspaper], the TRT could be present. It came to a head because of the belief over what the police can do or can't do. We have since researched this to great lengths and found that property owners can withdraw that invitation."
Knowing this, it's still a no-win situation, Harrison says. "We have two groups with opposing viewpoints and each is incredibly dedicated to their viewpoints. And both expect their rights, so we find ourselves standing in the middle, trying to figure this out. It's not up to us to say if they get to do this or not. The Constitution says they get to [exercise free speech]."
Since that incident, it's been pretty quiet, Harrison says. "We haven't had anything nearly like that since. But the point will be made in Denver," he predicts. "That's where you will garner the most support from both sides."
The police want to stay out of it, if possible, Harrison adds. "The police don't want to become a focal point of this. Then it takes on a different dynamic. When they arrest people, they become the focus. The optimum [for the rally] is that they get their names out there and they get their messages out there without violence. That's the optimum."
The Denver Police Department is well aware of the upcoming event and has worked with both groups to try and keep the peace. "All we do is coordinate between the Million Moms and the TRT," says Detective George Kennedy. "It's a matter of First Amendment rights. So we have a dialogue with them, and that is standard with any opposing groups."
Kennedy was involved with last year's event and has received praises from the Moms. "We did get help from the police," says Louis. "They were great. One of the Million Moms was being yelled at about being raped by some big burley guys, and the police came by and told her to breath. It really helped."
No physical violence ensued, and Louis hopes it will be the same this year. But she is cautious. "I think they [TRT] are pretty frustrated this year, and I think they are planning something like civil disobedience. We're going to have kids in the crowd. So I hope they won't do anything with kids in the crowd. It won't look good for them. We're hoping that since we have the Moms and the kids, we'll be okay."
Kennedy isn't too worried, although he acknowledges some of the Moms' fears. "There is concern on both sides as to what 'get in your face' means. But today, we don't have any record of physical abuse or violence on either side. There is the verbal part, but that's First Amendment rights as long as they go about it in a sane and fashionable manner."
That will be the order of the day, he believes, based on what he's seen before. "We don't have any information from any of these groups that there will be any violence from either side. We're not going to read into something that is not there, so we're not planning for a brawl. The police department would like to see it go off without any problems, and I'm sure it will. I think the group leaders from both sides are sane and reasonable, so we're not anticipating a war."
Kennedy sees the positive side. "This is what democracy is all about. People have different issues they want to express, and we're all entitled to do that. We're not about to step into the political arena and say one is right or wrong. We don't make the laws. We just enforce them."
Historically speaking, the "Million Mom March" has its politics in common with one of the great tyrants of the last millenium - Louis XIV - the man about whom the Bill of Rights was written.
They do not deserve our respect.
Gun control is an increasingly bad topic in America. The million moos don't have their captain, Bill Clinton, anymore.
AH! We're dragging out the "Awful Males of the TRT are Bullies" angle that was tried last year! Remember?
Remember? I'm one of them!
Right, right, you're another male thug, aren't you?
You fiend!
Scarin' the poor whittle wymin to death!
If only AlBorg2000® & Tipper were here to bedevil you, you'd be sorry! Yeah!
Million Mom March Puts Heart And Soul Into Planning Events--Events Are As Diverse As The Moms Themselves
Following are some of the unique events happening on Mother's Day across the country:
Westchester, NY where the speaker line-up includes Governor George Pataki, Actor Ossie Davis, NY Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, and many more. Children in attendance will put their handprints on a mural to be sent to President Bush and Congress saying: "We are joining hands to prevent gun violence...Won't you do the same?" Children are urged to bring their toy guns for a toy gun swap run by local police.
Subject: Pataki to speak for Million Moms Rally in Westchester as we demonstrate for our rights in Albany
Please help spread the word far and wide, that we may have a large crowd show up and march with us on the Governor's Mansion to post our grievances on the Mansion Gate. Help us send the message that these provocations are only growing an increasingly vocal resistance to our government leaders acting directly against us and using their privilages of office to intimidate and undermine others willing to cooperate with us.
Tom Chandler
Capital District SCOPE
NY TRT
Need Examples of Million Moms Commiting Violence
This from a woman who would vote to send men with guns to my front door to strip me of my rights.
As for any one who wants to take an opportunity to send a message to Senator Clinton and Gov. Pataki, show up at the Empire State Plaza in Albany, N.Y. to attend the SAS Rally and march on the Governor's Mansion on Mothers Day. Remember the forces we have arrayed against us up here in the Governor's office and the Mayor's office and the influence they wield in this government town. In three days enough people responded to their attempts to infringe our rights to freedom of speech, and to peaceably assemble to petition the government for redress of grievances, that they had to stop trying to outlaw our march and even backed off on escorting the MMMs as well. Clearly when they dropped the required escort for us in favor of a 'new special detail' they were planning to support the Million Mom's March instead of ours, at the cost of our ability to legally march.
It probably did not take a lot of notice from people willing to march and be arrested for our rights to realize that this could turn into a PR nightmare for them. How many hundreds, even thousands of people showing up to rally around on speakers and march on the Governor's Mansion will it take to make them wish they had not provoked us? How much apathy on behalf of our community to decide they may as well have gone very public with their plans to support the Million Mom's long ago?
Why are they being so low key in what they are doing? They have the resources the mail thousands of supporters and make arrangements with groups of supporters capable of fielding large crowds, they will look good on TV, so why are they so low key with the general public on what they are doing?
Am I missing the calls for people to come together that were so loud and prevalent last year? What do they seem afraid of? Is the prospect of US coming together to counter so daunting to them? What ever their reason for trying to be low key, we should be doing what we can to do top them what they most fear. If you can not attend and help us yourself, pleases help spread the word so that you give others that choice, how much does it cost you to E-mail your friends and associates, whom ever gets this too you?
Tom Chandler
Capital District SCOPE
NY TRT
Thanks for posting that- would-be tyrants & bullies fear dissent and opposition- they would like everybody not singing in their choir to sit down and shut up, or just knuckle under.
To that, I say
To those who don't like this kind of talk, I say,
"Too bad- you'd better get used to it."
America was founded on a bunch of arguments, and we aren't going to sit down, we aren't going to shut up, and we aren't going away.
This is our country, too-- we aren't subjects, we are citizens, and the vote of the poorest and meanest of us carries just as much weight as that of Bill Gates.
You out there who think you are our betters? You'd better listen real, real carefully.
"We will show up in force, and it will be confrontational," says Glass. "We're going to cause them to have a very bad day. We are going to get ugly and get in their face."
With quotes like this, just how do they expect to be intereted by the media. This kind of statements are just asking for trouble, no matter that it may indeed be necessary. I am not saying they need to be "PC", they just don't need to make statements that are veiled threats. If the quotes are factual, and I was marching with the MOM (fat chance), I would ask for additional police protection. Which is ironic, asking some else to protect them with guns because they say most people should not have the right to have said firearms.
'Veiled threats'? Threats of what? The truth? Look at the history. The MMMs are the violent ones.
"We are going to get ugly and in their face." What would that mean to you if some one said it to you, or your spouse? As has been mentioned many times, words mean things. Wouldn't it have been better to say "We will be there to present our side of this basic right, and hopefully educate those that are less informed. We hope to have meaningful discussions with our opponents, despite their history of antagonism against law abiding gun owners."
I know it sounds PC, but it is also rational. It leaves the door open to the reporter asking "What is their history..." Rather than asking "How ugly and combative can the gun owners be..."
Rest assured, if I still lived in Denver, I would be with the TRT for this event, as it is, I will be there in spirit.
We're focusing on victim support and remembering those who have died.
Translation: "We're going to try to couch this in emotion-laden terms so as to portray the pro-gun forces in the worst possible light. It's a classic maneuver taught us by the likes of Saul Alinsky."
TRT should answer this by "focusing on victims" of disarmament and "remembering" those who fought back, successfully preventing additional victims.
I know what you mean. It's frustrating because no matter what we say, the media will put it out of context...
What would be totally hilarious is when the doves are released..someone pulled out a rifle ... BLAM~ Of course this is in jest..
Doves is good eatin'.
TRT bang..., er BUMP!
Don't want to scare the moos, do we.
5.56mm
Better yet if one of nature's natural predators took a few out. Live and let die kind of stuff.
bump
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
[
Top
|
Latest Posts
|
Latest Articles
|
Self Search
|
Add Bookmark
|
Post
|
Abuse
|
Help!
]
FreeRepublic , LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794 Forum Version 2.0a Copyright © 1999 Free Republic, LLC |