Posted on 06/14/2023 10:48:04 AM PDT by vespa300
“Legalistic law keeping is not the way to earn His favor.”
I chuckle at people who says it’s “legalism” to keep the 4th commandment. But let their husbands cheat on em and suddenly, the commandments aren’t legalistic. Picky choosy with commandments.
You will.
But the Pharisees kept His commandments too.
Law keeping does not mean a right relationship with God.
It’s a matter of the heart, not the outward appearances.
> Oh great. Yet another thing for Christians to murder each other over. <
I’ve read the first 55 comments so far. Your tongue-in-cheek post above is getting more and more relevant.
So what would you tell Jesus, after He healed on the Sabbath?
Hmmm?
Would you be standing right beside the Pharisees?
Since Saturday was the Sabbath in the Law, Ten Commandments, and Christ fulfilled the Law and is now our Sabbath rest we can designate any day for corporate worship. But if anyone wants to get legalistic about it they need to address themselves to Colossians 2:16, “Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.”
Since Jesus tells us in Matthew 22:37 that the greatest commandment is ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ and given what he says about the Law in the Beatitudes (Matthew 5) it’s pretty safe to say that anyone that isn’t worshipping daily through obedience, prayer and meditation on the Word is falling short of the Law and is destined to be found guilty on judgement day unless they have been saved by grace through faith in Christ alone. Ephesians 2:8&9
>>>EVERY day is a day of worship.>>>
Except you cannot produce a single text that says God “sanctified” every other day as he did the 7th day. In Genesis , he “Sanctified” the 7th day. Not every day. Sanctified means “set apart for holy use.” And only God is holy and only God can make something holy.
You people keep making up stuf...it’s as if you don’t study the Bible much.
Post on FR on the Sabbath???????
I wonder who that could be........
Actually, a brief perusal of posting histories shows a number of legalistic Sabbath keepers hypocritically posting on FR on Saturdays.
>> Rome had a Sun God, among many others, that they worshipped on Sundays <<
Highly misleading. Ancient Romans used an 8-day week. The 7-day week came into use only after the influence of the sizeable Jewish population. For three centuries after Jesus, Rome still commonly used an 8-day week side-by-side with the Judeo-Christian 7-day week, but the Romans did adopt a 7-day cycle of honoring the 7 celestial bodies (Sun, Moon and 5 planets).
In the 4th century, St Jerome would note: “If pagans call the Lord’s Day the ‘day of the sun,’ we willingly agree, for today the light of the world is raised, today is revealed the sun of justice with healing in his rays.” But note, he’s taking ‘Sol’ to mean strictly the celestial body, not the false god.
You have some good points. That said, I think the heart and our prayers count. We are all wrong about something, Happily, Christ laid down His life so we can come to him to worship Him corporately or individually. I am in a Plymouth Brethren Assembly and have elders who help us, men speak in the Lord’s Supper, our wives are silent for that part but all of us sing together.
Your speaking of the the Woman in Revelation 12:1 I would suspect.
Revelation has apocalyptic literature int it but at its core it is a book that has a peak into Heavenly worship, which in reality is “Latreuo” which is sacred service rendered to God (See MT 4:10). In MT 4:10, Christ tells the Devil you should worship and serve God alone. The word for worship here in Greek is “Proskeneuo” which literally means honor, revere and prostrate, etc. the word for Serve in that passage is Latreuo which is is connected to sacred service and Rite that is rooted in sacrifice.
Jesus is pictured as the Lamb of God in Revelation, over and over again. Why Lamb? connecting Christ to the true spotless passover Lamb of Exodus 12. Jesus is pictured as a Lamb slain (Rev 5:6). As other posters noted, the Apostle John had the Lord’s Day (Sunday) as the proper day to offer true “Latreuo” to God (Rev. 1:10). As my Catholic Bible with detailed comments and references to early Church Fathers note, in Revelation you see an altar in heaven (Rev. 8:3), robed priests (Rev 4:4), candles, incense, Manna in heaven (Rev 1:12; 5:8, 2:17), Incense in a bowl rising up representing the prayers of the saints, etc.
Your entire interpretation is not in line with the early Church who canonized the NT. It is purely an invention of American religion from the 19th century and to be blunt, by peoples whose ancestors came from North of the Alps and had absolutely nothing to do with the early Apostolic Church.
>>>Since Saturday was the Sabbath in the Law, Ten Commandments, and Christ fulfilled the Law>>>
It helps to quote the whole context. Think not that I have some to destroy the law, I came fulfill the law”
See, you have him destroying the law. He didn’t destroy it..he fulfilled, filled it full. He is our example and he said NOT ONE JOT OR TITTLE would change till heaven and earth pass away.
Please....don’t make up things. Fulfilling the law, does not mean destroying or doing away with it....unless I can steal your car and your ok with that.
It’s the 10 commandments not the 9. Plus, we can’t play picky choosy with laws.......abortion is against God’s law and you seem to be ok with that law. No picky choosy.
I think this in an incorrect presumption. I know of no such argument being made nor by whom.
There are pointers to early Christians worshipping on Sunday as a celebration of eucharist or the resurrection, but these are not meant to "prove" God ordered a schedule change, merely reference to the tradition.
The "sabbath replacement concept" did not occur till later and changed over the years. Sometimes strict, and sometimes not. Whether or not a particular Catholic happens to be aware of this history is not particularly important.
Below is a link to this "history of Sunday":
I wonder how the legalistic Sabbath keepers manage to keep the reset of the Law without the Temple at Jerusalem and a consecrated priesthood to offer the appropriate sacrifices.
There are, after all, nine other commandments and over 600 laws that God had the Jews keep. And yet some folks obsess over one and sin with impunity with the others.
"Those who worship on Sunday gather in rememberance of The Resurrection of Christ overcoming Death, absolving us of sin by his sacrifice and rose from the dead."
That's my reason to celebrate Sunday as the sabbath. Clearly,the death and resurrection of our Lord and Savior is a good reason for celebrating Sunday as a day of rememberance and rest. My concern is the contention this person seems to delight in finding an "aha" moment about Catholicism and it's truth. Surely she can argue something far more distinctive about the belief in purgatory or the eternal virginity of Mary. I mean no disrespect to my brothers and sisters in Christ. I wonder why one would start with Saturday versus Sunday worship. That isn't a deal breaker with God. Belief in paying a sin debt in a second chance made up place is straight from hell. Hell is a REALplace. I was raised as a Catholic and even attended parochial school. My parents (devoted catholics) have both gone to be with the Lord. They knew the point of God's only begotten Son giving Himself as a sacrifice and accepted that truth as the only reason they would be allowed to enter heaven.
“Law keeping does not mean a right relationship with God.”
Of course it does. It’s the beginning of a right relationship with God. The woman at the well asked Jesus for the living water, the holy Spirit. He immediately says go get your husband. I have no husband she says. You are right in saying you have no husband for you have had five and the one you are living with now is not your husband, he replies.
She wants the holy Spirit, she wants a living relationship with God and He IMMEDIATELY goes at the sin in her life which prevents her from having or even beginning a right relationship with Him.
"Those who worship on Sunday gather in rememberance of The Resurrection of Christ overcoming Death, absolving us of sin by his sacrifice and rose from the dead."
That's my reason to celebrate Sunday as the sabbath. Clearly,the death and resurrection of our Lord and Savior is a good reason for celebrating Sunday as a day of rememberance and rest. My concern is the contention this person seems to delight in finding an "aha" moment about Catholicism and it's truth. Surely she can argue something far more distinctive about the belief in purgatory or the eternal virginity of Mary. I mean no disrespect to my brothers and sisters in Christ. I wonder why one would start with Saturday versus Sunday worship. That isn't a deal breaker with God. Belief in paying a sin debt in a second chance made up place is straight from hell. Hell is a REALplace. I was raised as a Catholic and even attended parochial school. My parents (devoted catholics) have both gone to be with the Lord. They knew the point of God's only begotten Son giving Himself as a sacrifice and accepted that truth as the only reason they would be allowed to enter heaven.
According to who? 19th and 20th century American protestant bible distorters, sola meo, sola ego, sola scriptura.
The putting together of the canon wasn't anything magical that Rome did. It was the consensus of the early church. The "canon" was being compiled and approved long before the Roman church put their stamp of approval on it.
For example Paul wrote:
1Ti 5:18 For the Scripture says, "YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE AN OX WHILE IT TREADS OUT THE GRAIN," and, "THE LABORER IS WORTHY OF HIS WAGES."
The first part of this is found in the Old Testament...but Paul also calls the second part "scripture" as well. And this appears (today) in Luke 10:7. So Paul at least consisidered and taught what Luke recorded as scripture.
Another example:
2Pe 3:15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 2Pe 3:16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
Note that Peter lumps Paul's letters in with the rest of scripture.
In addition we also know that Paul's letters were circulated and considered authoritative by congregations other than those where they were sent.
Col 4:16 Now when this epistle is read among you, see that it is read also in the church of the Laodiceans, and that you likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.
1Th 5:27 I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read to all the holy brethren.
So one should NOT have to grant authority to the Roman church for changing God's commandments simply because they approved of what the church had already compiled.
Oh my goodness.....Rome is crushing it ! Again, excellent theology here. For those of you who think the Bible does away with the Sabbath and teaches Sunday.......watch Rome destroy that! And she mentions Seventh day Adventists too:
Quote from Rome:
We now approach the investigation of this interesting question for the next thirty years, as narrated by the evangelist, St. Luke, in his Acts of the Apostles. Surely some vestige of the canceling act can be discovered in the practice of the apostles during that protracted period.
But alas! We are once more doomed to disappointment. Nine times do we find the Sabbath referred to in the Acts, but it is the Saturday (the Old Sabbath). Should our readers desire the proof, we refer them to chapter and verse in each instance. Acts 13:14, 27, 42, 44. Once more, Acts 15: 21; again, Acts 16: 13; 17:2; 18:4. “And he (Paul) reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.” Thus the Sabbath (Saturday) from Genesis to Revelation!!! Thus, it is impossible to find in the New Testament the slightest interference by the Saviour or His apostles with the original Sabbath, but on the contrary, an entire acquiescence in the original arrangement; nay, a plenary endorsement by Him, whilst living: and an unvaried, active participation in the keeping of that day and no other by the apostles for thirty years after His death, as the Acts of the Apostles has abundantly testified to us.
Hence the conclusion is inevitable: viz,. that of those who follow the Bible as their guide, the Israelites and Seventh-day Adventists have the exclusive weight of evidence on their side, whilst the Biblical Protestant has not a word in self-defense for his substitution of Sunday for Saturday. More anon.
Citation please.
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