Highly religious Utah ranked as 'Most Charitable State' in 2021

Christian Post ^ | 11/20/2020 | Ryan Foley

[Raymond Pamintuan]

I agree with him. Our young missionaries know more “about God and Christ and the plan of salvation” than those who attack us.

They know the importance of repentance, baptism by immersion, receiving the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands, eating and drinking the body and blood of Christ to get sanctified, and a whole lot more.

I know this firsthand - I served for two years as a young missionary in the Philippines. I never, not once, encountered ANYONE who attacked us who knew more than me. This included two Southern Baptist American pastors in Zambales.

But this does not mean our young missionaries can debate deep theology. Only those with years of education can.

[Oil Object Insp]

The center?

Really Laz?

The center? Hyperbole?

I don’t recall any mormon zealot going bezerk and killing anyone, such as the muslim are frequently doing?

Why denigrate any religion who may support the banner of true patriotism. Do you feel the same for hindu? sikh? buddhist?

Do you figure you might need those whom do not espouse the same beliefs as you in the defense of liberty?

Just to clear the subject I’m not much for heavy metal music or tattoos. I do believe that those who enjoy either and/or both will be willing to do the work that may be required to salvage our Republic.

Oh and I like Asian food, just in case they might put me on some hated persons list.

I’m still willing and ready, if it comes to pass.

Alone.Or.With.Others

[Raymond Pamintuan]

And here’s a great example of your poor reasoning ability.

There are 40 hours in a typical workweek, not 8. So, your calculation comes out to 40,000 hours, not 8,000 hours.

But I never said those 70,000 hours were limited to 20 years. I said “over two decades” and I did documentation analysis before I started doing it as a career. It was precisely my experience in it that caused me to get hired in the first place.

Also, I typically worked 60-65 hours a week (there were times when I did 100-110 hours a week when I was doing IT documentation).

Thanks for bringing it up, it seems I’m closer to 75,000 hours now since the 70,000 number was from two years ago.

[Raymond Pamintuan]

So, one or two guys made a painting that became popular.

Big deal.

Do you really think Jesus was blond with blue eyes?

[Raymond Pamintuan]

Good point.

Go ask him.

I happen to have a copy of Manuscript Found. Show me where Joseph Smith copied from it.

Oh, interesting side note - there are NO argumentative essays anywhere in that book. I checked.

So, how did 21% of the Book of Mormon get them?

[Raymond Pamintuan]

Gladly. Below are the 46 argumentative essays in the Book of Mormon. [Source: my paper that is currently in a double-blind peer review at an academic journal]

You should know by now that I never make claims I cannot back up.

Lol! You cannot even handle one - just the tiny Alma 36 makes you run away. How are you going to handle 46?

# LOCATION WORD COUNT RHETORICAL MODE
1 2 Nephi 1:4-32 1330 Persuasion
2 2 Nephi 2 1456 Persuasion
3 2 Nephi 3 1168 Persuasion
4 2 Nephi 25:1-20 1228 Persuasion
5 2 Nephi 25:21-30 471 Persuasion
6 2 Nephi 26:1-11 502 Persuasion
7 2 Nephi 26:12-33 981 Argumentation
8 2 Nephi 28-30 2751 Argumentation
9 2 Nephi 31 988 Argumentation
10 2 Nephi 32 427 Argumentation
11 2 Nephi 9:1-26 1305 Argumentation
12 2 Nephi 9:27-54 1083 Argumentation
13 2 Nephi 10 966 Persuasion
14 Jacob 2-3:11 1881 Argumentation
15 Mosiah 2:9-41 1704 Argumentation
16 Mosiah 3 1117 Argumentation
17 Mosiah 4:4-30 1390 Argumentation
18 Mosiah 5:6-15 482 Argumentation
19 Mosiah 13:11-24,27-15:10a 1361 Argumentation
20 Mosiah 15:10b-31 740 Persuasion
21 Mosiah 16:1-15 560 Persuasion
22 Mosiah 29:5-32 1163 Persuasion
23 Alma 5 2786 Argumentation
24 Alma 7 1439 Persuasion
25 Alma 9:8-30 1172 Argumentation
26 Alma 12:12-18,22-37 1144 Argumentation
27 Alma 13:1-30 1329 Persuasion
28 Alma 32:16-43 1216 Argumentation
29 Alma 33:2-23 776 Argumentation
30 Alma 36 1229 Persuasion
31 Alma 37 2026 Persuasion
32 Alma 38 649 Persuasion
33 Alma 40 1153 Argumentation
34 Alma 41 701 Argumentation
35 Alma 42 1228 Argumentation
36 Alma 34 1545 Argumentation
37 Alma 60 1746 Argumentation
38 Helaman 7:13-29; 8:11-28 1396 Argumentation
39 Helaman 13:5-39 1672 Argumentation
40 Helaman 14:2-31 1220 Persuasion
41 Helaman 15 825 Persuasion
42 Moroni 7 1881 Argumentation
43 Moroni 8 887 Argumentation
44 Mormon 9 1561 Argumentation
45 Ether 12:6-41 1352 Argumentation
46 Moroni 10 1149 Argumentation

[Raymond Pamintuan]

So, that’s your answer? Demonic possession? Of a book that tells people to believe in Jesus and follow him to the best of their ability?

I follow the scientific process. We can use it in evaluating the book’s credibility.

[Raymond Pamintuan]

Lol.

1. Luke 1:35
The Holy Spirit will come (epeleusetai epi se) upon you [Mary] and power of the Most High will overshadow you.

So, according to you, Christ did NOT exist until Mary became pregnant? Who then created the universe?

2. John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

When is this “beginning”? If “all things were made by him” doesn’t this refer to the universe?

So, the beginning then needs to be the Big Bang - the creation of the universe.

This means Christ existed before the Big Bang - something we teach because of our belief in the pre-existence and in Christ creating the universe.

But this does not mean Christ was aseitic as God before the Big Bang. All John said was he was there at the creation of this universe.

You ASSUME it means aseitic while all it’s saying is he was there. He could be aseitic as “God” or not. He could be created as “God” or not. He could be begotten as “God” or not.

The fact is you DON’T know because you CANNOT see outside this universe’s membrane to know what reality is like outside it.

3. see above

Elsie, a knowledgeable Catholic wouldn’t make such a rookie mistake.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Sorry Ray, your Mormonic Jesus had a beginning and wasn’t eternally God - the ONE True God.

As such, mormonism is a henotheistic cult - just like the Babylonian Mystery religions.

If you can’t correctly identify the Christ of Scripture, there isn’t anything you are qualified to teach about salvation, God, the Gospel, etc.

Plus you are probably TWWMU, so there’s that.

[Vigilanteman]

My take:
1) PDJT was taken in by Romney. He is slick and has nice manners. He fooled many of us in 2012. PDJT, like many of us, knew a great many Mormons who were decent, honorable people and couldn't imagine that Romney was a snake underneath. Neither could many of the good Mormon voters of Utah.

2) Romney had worthy opponents in 2018 who tried to warn the voters of Utah. PDJT's endorsement made much of the difference. He will have a much wiser constituency in 2024. My bet is that he will take a position in the Biden cabinet (if offered) to avoid running again, or simply retire.

3) A lot of posters on this forum hate Mormons more than they love America.

4) See post #3. Of course we should be looking for common ground instead of areas of disagreement. But those with the thickest of skulls can't see though their blinders.

[Raymond Pamintuan]

Proof! Where’s the proof our Jesus has a beginning and wasn’t eternally God?

You keep making the accusation but you can’t back it up.

I keep telling you that we believe Jesus created the universe and even provided passages from our scriptures.

Why do you ignore what is right in front of you?

Fact: You DON’T know what reality is like outside this universe and before the Big Bang.

So you cannot justify who Jesus was before he created this universe 13.9 billion years ago.

Have some decency and accept the fact that there are things that no one can possibly know and only truly stupid people make statements that cannot be justified.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Raymond, I’d trust Tijuana tiolet water as safe to drink,
before I’d trust the mormonic Jesus who had a beginning
and want always God.

Nor am I surprised your posts bloviated on and on and on
and tried to not admit it for days.

We haven’t even talked about how many mormonic gods exist...

Or that Mormonic Heavenly Father also had a beginning.

It’s a henotheistic cult.

It’s a satanic fake.

[Raymond Pamintuan]

You keep on bearing false witness against us but you don’t provide any proof for your accusations.

Why?

Why is your pride so hard that you cannot admit you are wrong?

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Raymond, who ever is in charge of your FR acct has it set on histrionic whining.
OK, how many gods does mormonism recognize?

1. How many separate Mormon earth gods?
2. How many Mormon gods exist on other planets and other universes?

[Elsie]

You cannot justify your beliefs because you have no evidence to back them up.

From a member of a 'religion' that claims golden plates, Personages, curloms, steel and huge cities; this is rich!

[Elsie]

You don’t even know what the “Gospel” is.

This from someone who whines about OTHERS lying?

Really??

Your mindreader needs a tuneup.

[Elsie]

Oh, and it was you guys who fought the Civil War to keep blacks enslaved.

Nice going, hypocrite.

If you'd do just a smidgen of research; you'd have found out I'm from Indiana.

Nice going; Lazy.

[Elsie]

Hey, it’s not my fault you have a poor grasp of English grammar.

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"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses", reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881  in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)

 

---

 Seems strange to me; that if the words were correct when first translated; there would be no need for 'corrections' to the published text later on.

 

How would a historian know WHICH version is REALLY 'correct'; since there is no evidence, whatsoever, of the original plates/carators that is not disputed by Mormon authorities?

 

It would have been an easy task to merely make a rubbing of the impressed Reformed Egyptian pictograms.

 

   

 

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[Elsie]

Numerous changes to the first edition of the Book of Mormon were made in the 2nd edition in 1837.
LDS leaders teach current members that only punctuation and grammar corrections were made.
 
But of the nearly 4,000 alterations, some of them had to do with Joseph's evolving belief about the nature of God.
Notice how these verses changed from Jesus-was-God-the-Father, to Jesus-is-the-Son-of-God-and-not-the-Father. 

Investigators believe that the evidence clearly shows that Joseph changed his belief that God the Father and Jesus Christ were one being, to the belief that they were two beings.

Then, he then revised the Book of Mormon in 1837 to support his new idea.

 

Original 1830 Text		Current, Altered Text Link is here. (Highlighted portion)
1 Nephi 3, p. 25* And he said unto me, Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of God, after the manner of the flesh * The 1830 text did not have verse divisions.		1 Nephi 11:18 And he said unto me, Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God.
1 Nephi 3, p. 25 And the angel said unto me, behold the Lamb of God, even the Eternal Father!		1 Nephi 11:21 And the angel said unto me, behold the Lamb of God, even the Son of the Eternal Father!
1 Nephi 3, p. 26 And I looked and beheld the Lamb of God, that he was taken by the people; yea, the Everlasting God, was judged of the world.		1 Nephi 11:32 And I looked and beheld the Lamb of God, that he was taken by the people; yea, the Son of the Everlasting God, was judged of the world.
1 Nephi 3, p. 32 These last records…shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father and the Savior of the world.		1 Nephi 13:40 These last records ...shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father and the Savior of the world.

 

Then, he then revised the Book of Mormon in 1837 to support his new idea.

 

Original 1830 Text		Current, Altered Text Link is here. (Highlighted portion)
1 Nephi 3, p. 25* And he said unto me, Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of God, after the manner of the flesh * The 1830 text did not have verse divisions.		1 Nephi 11:18 And he said unto me, Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God.
1 Nephi 3, p. 25 And the angel said unto me, behold the Lamb of God, even the Eternal Father!		1 Nephi 11:21 And the angel said unto me, behold the Lamb of God, even the Son of the Eternal Father!
1 Nephi 3, p. 26 And I looked and beheld the Lamb of God, that he was taken by the people; yea, the Everlasting God, was judged of the world.		1 Nephi 11:32 And I looked and beheld the Lamb of God, that he was taken by the people; yea, the Son of the Everlasting God, was judged of the world.
1 Nephi 3, p. 32 These last records…shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father and the Savior of the world.		1 Nephi 13:40 These last records ...shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father and the Savior of the world.

 

[Elsie]

Forget everything that I have said,

or what President Brigham Young or President George Q. Cannon

or whomsoever has said in days past that is contrary to the present revelation.