Posted on 07/19/2018 7:39:46 AM PDT by Salvation
Context campion. Context is your key to understanding the NT.
The wages of SIN is death. Paul notes this in Romans 6:23. This includes all sin. Big ones; little ones. More on this later.
No. Romans 7.
But the new nature is reborn of the Spirit and is NOT corrupted.
There is a war between the two natures while we are here on earth, which is why we still sin.
But when this body of flesh finally dies, so does the old corrupted nature and what's left is the new creation in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17) which is already, now, at the present, seated with Christ in heaven. (Ephesians 2:6)
Ok, provide the chapter and verse that list mortal sins and venial sins.
Graduations of the seriousness of sin are a man-made construct.
In James 2, we are told this.
James 2:8-11 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
So does Roman Catholicism consider showing partiality a mortal sin or not? In this passage, it's lumped right in with murder and adultery, which y'all consider mortal sins.I don't recall ever being told that showing partiality was a sin at all, much less a *mortal sin*.
I wonder how many Catholics take that sin to the confessional.
Has the Vatican issued a formal dogmatic rendering of what this text means?
If so, please provide.
Your post from James 2:8-11 illustrates the importance of understanding a verse in context to understand the meaning of the verse.
We are forgiven of our sins. Colossians 2:13-14 illustrates just how thorough this cleansing is. Our sins are wiped out...our sin debt is cancelled.
Paul answers your question about how we have to deal with the old sin nature.
14For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
21I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin. Romans 7:14-25 NASB
Of course they are. That is not the question. Are they cleansed of the corruption of the soul that causes one to sin in the first place?
You call it a loaded question. Is it not because to answer it would show that after our sins are forgiven there still remains a corruption in the soul that needs to be cleansed? To answer it would show the Protestant premise that salvation is only concerned with a judicial declaration of forgiveness is lacking.
Did you read the passage from Romans?
Only for those who do not continue to live according to the flesh:
For if you live according to the flesh, you will die, but if by the spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. (Romans 8:13)
How many times must I point out that mortal sin is not a question of lists but of degree and culpability? One more time: for a sin to be mortal it must be 1) grave matter, 2) done with sufficient reflection, and 3) with the full consent of the will. Thus any sin will be mortal or venial according to the above criteria.
Logical fallacy: begging the question.
Argue from Scripture.
1 Hence, now there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has freed you from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law, weakened by the flesh, was powerless to do, this God has done: by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for the sake of sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the righteous decree of the law might be fulfilled in us, who live not according to the flesh but according to the spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh are concerned with the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the spirit with the things of the spirit. 6 The concern of the flesh is death, but the concern of the spirit is life and peace. 7 For the concern of the flesh is hostility toward God; it does not submit to the law of God, nor can it; 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh; on the contrary, you are in the spirit, if only the Spirit of God dwells in you. Whoever does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 If the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also, through his Spirit that dwells in you. 12 Consequently, brothers, we are not debtors to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die, but if by the spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.God accomplishes in Jesus Christ what the old law could not do, giving us the grace to live according to the spirit. Notice that the righteous decree of the law being fulfilled in us is not just dependent of faith alone but on not living according to the flesh. Indeed, Paul is insistent: "For if you live according to the flesh, you will die, but if by the spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live."
See post #94
Because your argument is not from Scripture. You are trying to explain your theology, whereas metmom and I want you to prove it.
And this argues in favor of mortal sins and Purgatory how?
All this seems to be doing is repeating the false assumption that only Caths teach to do good works.
Silly me. I thought that Romans 8 was Scripture. Perhaps this from Galatians 5 will do:
16 I say, then: live by the Spirit and you will certainly not gratify the desire of the flesh. 17 For the flesh has desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; these are opposed to each other, so that you may not do what you want. 18 But if you are guided by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, rivalry, jealousy, outbursts of fury, acts of selfishness, dissensions, factions, 21 occasions of envy, drinking bouts, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 In contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ [Jesus] have crucified their flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also follow the Spirit. 26 Let us not be conceited, provoking one another, envious of one another.
14 This is the confidence we have before him: If we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears whatever we ask, we know that we have what we have asked of him.
16 If anyone sees a fellow believer committing a sin that doesn’t lead to death, he should ask, and God will give life to him—to those who commit sin that doesn’t lead to death. There is sin that leads to death. I am not saying he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin that doesn’t lead to death.
A “sin that leads to death” would be ANY sin, if not forgiven. This passage is about praying for OTHER people’s sins: “If anyone sees a fellow believer committing a sin that doesn’t lead to death”.
But you shouldn’t always ask God to forgive someone else’s sin, because “There is sin that leads to death. I am not saying he should pray about that.” So what could John be referring to?
22 The scribes who had come down from Jerusalem said, “He is possessed by Beelzebul,” and, “He drives out demons by the ruler of the demons.”...
28 “Truly I tell you, people will be forgiven for all sins and whatever blasphemies they utter. 29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”— 30 because they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.” - Mark 3
When God is at work, and someone calls the work of God demonic - when they utterly reject the power of God completely, their sin will not be forgiven.
The writer of Hebrews says:
“For it is impossible to renew to repentance those who were once enlightened, who tasted the heavenly gift, who shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who tasted God’s good word and the powers of the coming age, 6 and who have fallen away. This is because, to their own harm, they are recrucifying the Son of God and holding him up to contempt.”
If you see someone sinning, you can ask God to forgive that particular sin. But there are sins against the blood of Jesus Himself, and it isn’t appropriate to ask God to forgive that sin.
Murder is not a “mortal” sin. It is certainly a serious one in terms of impact against other humans, but it is not something God will refuse to forgive. But the knowing rejection of Jesus Christ?
From Wiki:
“A mortal sin (Latin: peccatum mortale), in Catholic theology, is a gravely sinful act, which can lead to damnation if a person does not repent of the sin before death. A sin is considered to be “mortal” when its quality is such that it leads to a separation of that person from God’s saving grace.”
“According to Roman Catholicism, a venial sin is a lesser sin that does not result in a complete separation from God and eternal damnation in Hell as an unrepented mortal sin would. A venial sin consists in acting as one should not, without the actual incompatibility with the state of grace that a mortal sin implies; they do not break one’s friendship with God, but injure it.”
The problem with these distinctions is that they do not address the real issue: Has one been born again? Has one been baptized in the Holy Spirit and placed “In Christ”?
If we are “In Christ”, our sin will not count AGAINST us because Christ’s perfection counts FOR us.
” 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of his great love that he had for us, 5 made us alive with Christ even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace! 6 He also raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavens in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might display the immeasurable riches of his grace through his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.” - Ephesians 2
And notice the past tense: “and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus”. IN CHRIST, we are already there!
If one wants to keep the terms “mortal” and “venial”, then perhaps one could say PRIOR to being joined to Christ, ALL sins are mortal. AFTER we are placed in Christ, joined to Him and sealed by the Holy Spirit, then pretty much all sin is venial - damaging, but still covered by the blood of Jesus.
Notice verse 1.....there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
I don't think there is anyone in Christianity who says we are not to walk/live by the Spirit.
Are we to produce fruit for the Kingdom? You bet. The NT is clear on that. Paul and James concur on that.
But our "fruit/works" are not what save us.
We can be "good" (do nice things for people...don't break the rules of society, etc) without faith in Christ and we will go to Hell.
The faith in Christ, that He is able to save you and cleanse you of all sins, is what saves us.
Our "fruit/works" come about as a result of that faith. It's the evidence of the changed soul/mind of the believer.
Does this mean we don't sin or commit a trespass? No. I think we'd agree that's humanely impossible to do.
But we have forgiveness in Christ.
Does it give us a "license to sin"? No, sir. No believer would argue that nor does the NT teach that.
When we sin, we confess to Christ not to regain salvation, but to be in agreement with Him we are sinners. If we lost salvation everytime we sinned, and that would include all sins, then we'd be constantly having to be resaved over and over and over and over and over again. You'd never know if you'e saved or not.
I do not believe the NT teaches that.
We can know we have salvation based on Ephesians 1:7-14 among many others....
7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory. Ephesians 1:7-14 NASB
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