Posted on 04/19/2018 8:45:00 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
This is a delicate question, as it exposes one of the fundamental differences between the Christian outlook and the Jewish one.
As far as I understand the Christian concept, it runs something like this: Ever since the expulsion of the first man and woman from Eden, the world has been “fallen” and all subsequent human beings have been born inherently sinful, guilty from the moment of birth as a result of the first man’s disobedience of G-d’s commandment not to eat of the ‘Etz haDa‘ath Tov vaRa -- usually translated “the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.” The only way to escape condemnation and eternal damnation for this inherently sinful nature is to accept the blood sacrifice of the Christian savior. In this fashion one can gain salvation, purely as an act of Divine grace, without dessert or merit on the part of the human being.
To my mind, there is a basic flaw in this reasoning. Christians often picture Jews as believing in a dour, harshly judgmental “Old Testament” G-d, despite dozens of statements in Tanach (the proper name for what Christians call the “Old Testament”) expressing G-d’s love of Israel and indeed, all humanity. They juxtapose this to the “loving G-d” of the “New Testament.” This invites the question: What about the billions of human beings who were born and lived their lives without knowing anything whatsoever about the Romans’ execution of a carpenter in Judaea some 2,000 years ago? If G-d is indeed rachum vechanun, “merciful and gracious,” as the Bible asserts (cf. Exodus XXXIV ,6), how could He allow such a state of affairs to go on?
This view of an inherently evil world is often expressed in almost Manichaean terms, with the world dominated by an evil being -- “the Devil,” “Satan,” a “fallen angel” -- in opposition to G-d.
So what, in fact, do Jews believe?
Consider the terms tov and ra, conventionally translated, as I wrote before, as “good” and “evil.” At every stage of the world’s creation, G-d pronounced it tov before proceeding to the next stage. On the creation of mankind, He pronounced it tov me’od (“very good”), and there is no indication thereafter that He changed his mind.
Ra does not actually mean “evil” in the English sense of the word. Some glimmering of its actual meaning can be ascertained from some of the other ways that the root is used. For instance, in Psalms II, 9 King David beseeches G-d to deal with his enemies: Tero‘em beshevet barzel (“You should smash them with an iron rod”), or in Isaiah XXIV, 19 the prophet begins his description of an earthquake: Ra’o hithro‘a‘a ha’aretz ("the Earth is completely shaken”). From these, we can see that it means something like “unstable, broken, dysfunctional” and therefore “bad.”
Human beings come into this world innocent of anything, but possessed of a capacity for good (commonly termed the yetzer hatov) as well as a destructive capacity, commonly termed the yetzer hara. The yetzer hara presents all the physical urges, the needs and wants, of the physical body which, like everything else in the physical realm, is subject to entropy -- that is, it wears out and falls apart. But he is also provided with a soul, whose highest purpose is to control those urges and channel them into positive actions.
To this end, children are provided with parents and other mentors, whose job it is to teach them right from wrong and self-control, so that his soul is capable of taking charge and leading a proper, sanctified life. Until that moment when he is capable of taking over, any “sins” that the child commits are the responsibility of the parent.
So when does a Jewish individual begin to sin? At the age of bar or bath mitzva. These terms mean “son or daughter of the commandments” because on reaching that age, they become subject to the 613 commandments in the Torah, and their parents are no longer responsible for their actions. This landmark occurs when a boy is 13 years old and a girl is 12. One of the most emotional moments of the bar mitzva ceremony comes when the boy’s father pronounces the blessing, baruch sheptarani me‘onsho shel ze (“Blessed is He who has exempted me from this one’s punishment”).
What is the Jewish concept of the satan? Well, we agree with the Christians that he is a mal’ach, conventionally translated “angel,” but there’s nothing “fallen” about him. He works for the same Divine Boss as all the other mal’achim. Think of the satan (the word means “adversary”) as the proctor of an exam. The proctor isn’t actively rooting for you to fail the test; to the contrary, he wants you to pass. But he administers a tough test, to be certain that it tests all your capabilities and that you’ve mastered the material, i.e. the life lessons available from one’s parents and other mentors. If you manage to pass the test, no one is happier than the satan.
Of course, to be constantly consciously aware of one’s actions and to control and channel the yetzer hara requires arduous, exhausting effort; most of us stumble somewhere on the path, which is what the term usually translated “sin,” chet, actually means: “to miss a mark or a target.” For this, there is the process called teshuva, roughly “repentance,” literally “return” to the straight and narrow after having erred and strayed from the path.
Because G-d truly is rachum vechanun, erech apayim verav chesed ve’emeth, notzer chesed la’alafim, mose ‘avon vafesha vachata’a vnaqe (“merciful and gracious, long-suffering, great of kindness and trust, keeping kindness for the thousands, bearing iniquity and transgression and sin, and cleansing.” Exodus ibid.).
Jeshua disagrees.
"I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven." -Luke 10:18
Joooooz
This Rabbi is a fool. Instead of just stating what Jews believe he starts out by mischaracterizing and denigrating Christianity. How does that help anything?
They've been provided a chance at salvation as those who believe in Christ after his crucifixion, resurrection and before the judgment.
Every single Rabbi I have ever talked to starts the conversation the same way.
They break down first what you hold evident, then they fill in the spaces with their views.
I’m not anti-semitic. It’s just something that people do when they want to convert you to their ways.
Oy-vey. This guy needs to go back to Torah school.
I once saw an explanation of that, I don't recall where and when or the full text/context of it. It stated that Christ after His death and before the resurrection offered salvation to the souls of those who had not known Him, and those who accepted His sacrifice would be saved. As in life, an evil soul would reject Him, and a sinful but righteous soul (since ALL have sinned) would accept Him.
Loving and forgiving, slow to anger, rich in kindness...partially remembered from a hymn.
This is almost to the level of denying that there is evil in this world.
Let’s look at the book of Job. Was Satan the proctor in an exam. No, Satan wanted Job to fail, to curse G*d and die.
This is what sin meant then, and therefore its real meaning now. Few understands this! Try to understand this if you don't already. REAL-ize this! It's implications are rather profound, especially as it is counter to the collective-agreement-meaning most carry with them when they use the term internally or externally.
It means 'you shot your arrow, and you missed the bulls eye.' Period. Maybe you envisioned a target that was not the target, or maybe you just suck at aiming (bad character), or maybe you just aren't perfect (original sin.) Anything additional including judgement or the tacking on of ancillary attributes such as 'good' or 'bad' is embellishment, narrative, story and hence lies of commission or omission when compared to the truth as it actually is - as God created it - as opposed to the dramatic story in our heads.
Life in a universe that was there before you were, and out of which you are made and hence inherited all its attributes and are connected to all of it, is really quite simple, though I admit it doesn't always appear that way. It is the appearance that is the lie. The appearance is 'The World,' yes it is fallen, but it's not real. The original sin is to mistake The World - the appearance - for 'the world' as it was created, and simply is.
All sins - pride, greed etc. etc. etc. find a common root: The sufferer (and committer) mistakes The World for the world, acts as though The World were the world, and in doing so, shoots off arrows in every crazy direction like a Samurai in an LSD hallucination. His behavior makes no sense to anyone except perhaps his fellows caught up in the same collective hallucination. That is the default state of human existence, and why history, as Steyn has said, is an ongoing cycle of farce followed by farce followed by tragedy.
Satan? He neither cheers the human nor hates the human. He stands by snickering, but not malignantly so. He didn't cause any of it, unless you were to say 'Satan, thy name is ignorance, blindness and delusion - and further - the will to remain so!'
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“Let’s look at the book of Job. Was Satan the proctor in an exam. No, Satan wanted Job to fail, to curse G*d and die.”
No, in the Book of Job, Satan is charged with challenging Job’s faith by every means possible. He/it had the task of being very tough, of stripping away everything that Job knew, had or loved, so as to get to the essential Job. God knew that Job was faithful, but he had to be tested to prove it, and also to serve as a positive example to other people.
By the way, the Jewish concept of Hell is being without God in the World to Come (i.e. the afterlife or Heaven). There is no “Evil Central,” which sits there and plans to do evil and tempt humans...evil is just what our base nature leads us to do, from the standpoint of pure pleasure/self-interest. Having a physical body and physical needs, we are almost constantly tempted to stray from the ideals that God set forth for us...but that temptation is the very purpose of Creation - to allow us to exercise Free Will by having real choices. Without Free Will, there is simply no point to existence.
“What about the billions...”
I guess they’d wind up in that Sheol thing. Not so much a “condemnation”, but a lack of salvation according to the new covenant.
Note, “new” implies there was once “old” which also implies some finite amount of elapsed time before everyone gets the memo.
I think the heavenly bean-counters administrated the uninformed souls of this transition period with “purgatory”.
rjsimmon: Jeshua disagrees. “I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.” -Luke 10:18
Luke was following a false Messiah so who cares what he says.
Or maybe it's more that they want to establish a distance -- to make it clear to you that you won't convert them.
Just as Christians often tell Jews where they think they went wrong, Jews do the same thing to Christians.
It may make you bristle if you're not used to it, but I don't think the rabbi overdoes it here.
Also, Judaism has been around for a long time and doesn't always give clear answers.
Sometimes the rabbi's real argument may be with other Jews.
Nope. Jesus IS the Messiah. He proved that time and again.
So God can never be angry, because He made everything happen, correct?
It’s been my observation that Jews don’t need original sin to feel guilty, LOL.
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