Posted on 02/22/2018 8:33:27 PM PST by ebb tide
The Francis Effect meeting the German Heresiarchy leads to an explosive decision of cataclysmic consequences.
(Excerpt) Read more at rorate-caeli.blogspot.com ...
As we approach Easter I invite you to attend a Catholic Mass in your area.
I can’t answer because I don’t understand the question. I believe in the Bible is the best I can do for you.
If you think it is so difficult, why bother about it? No one here is trying to convert you.
Then attend a Mass and see how much of the Bible is in it. Bring your Bible.
That's very kind of you. I will consider it. My MIL is Catholic. I am not trying to offensive here but I am always glad to leave a Catholic Church as they give me the heebie-jeebies. I've only been to Catholic funerals. It's not just the funeral part but the overall surreal atmosphere leaves me uneasy.
A comparison of the texts we have on the Lord's Supper/Communion.
| Matthew 26:26-29 | Mark 14:22-24 | Luke 22:14-20 | John 13:21-26 | 1 Corinthians 11:23-26 |
| 26While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.” 27And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you; 28for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins. 29“But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom.” | 22While they were eating, He took some bread, and after a blessing He broke it, and gave it to them, and said, “Take it; this is My body.” 23And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, and they all drank from it.24And He said to them, “This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many. 25“Truly I say to you, I will never again drink of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”. | 14When the hour had come, He reclined at the table, and the apostles with Him. 15And He said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer; 16for I say to you, I shall never again eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.” 17And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He said, “Take this and share it among yourselves; 18for I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now on until the kingdom of God comes.”19And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 20And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood. |
21When Jesus had said this, He became troubled in spirit, and testified and said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, that one of you will betray Me.” 22The disciples began looking at one another, at a loss to know of which one He was speaking.23There was reclining on Jesus’ bosom one of His disciples, whom Jesus loved. 24So Simon Peter gestured to him, and said to him, “Tell us who it is of whom He is speaking.” 25He, leaning back thus on Jesus’ bosom, said to Him, “Lord, who is it?” 26Jesus then answered, “That is the one for whom I shall dip the morsel and give it to him.” So when He had dipped the morsel, He took and gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. | 23For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” 26For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes. |
Key Phrases/words:
Poured out: In the OT the blood sacrifice was never consumed; it was always poured out. We further have the drink offering which was poured out before God as a sacrifice (Ex 29:40, Numbers 15:4-5).
29.11 ἀνάμνησις, εως f: (derivative of ἀναμιμνῄσκω ‘to cause to remember,’ 29.10) the means for causing someone to remember—‘means of remembering, reminder.’ ἀλλ’ ἐν αὐταῖς ἀνάμνησις ἁμαρτιῶν κατ’ ἐνιαυτόν ‘but in those (sacrifices) there is a yearly reminder of sins’ or ‘… that people have sinned’ He 10:3. Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition., Vol. 1, p. 347). New York: United Bible Societies.
It's what's not in the Bible is the problem.
as they give me the heebie-jeebies.
Always inform the priest. He will call pest control
I find it perplexing. And un_Biblical. I read of Jesus and think on His life and it seems He was able to break down barriers (thinking of the Samaritan woman at the well here) and talk to any body freely including prostitutes and tax collectors.
I might ask you why bother to post to me if you find me disagreeable?
From the (Greek) Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom Byzantine-Ruthenian usage::
May the partaking of Your Holy Mysteries, O Lord, be not for my judgment or condemnation, but for the healing of my soul and body.
O Lord, I also believe and profess that this, which I am about to receive, is truly Your most precious body and Your life-giving blood, which, I pray, make me worthy to receive for the remission of all my sins and for life everlasting.
Amen.
Both the Latin "transubstantiation" and the Greek "metaousiosis" indicate Eucharistic Realism.
I'm not going to footnote this, but you should be able to google it instantly with those two keywords.
Have you found anybody prior to the 16th century who claimed the Mass was contradicted by the NT? For instance, has anybody said the Mass contradicts John 6:55?
Please cite me the post where I said you were disagreeable? I do think you’re not particularly interested in learning anything about Catholicism but that is not being disagreeable. That is simply being free republic, lol.
I did not need you to reproduce the Wikipedia article on transubstantiation. It is related to, but not the same as, Eucharistic Realism, i.e. the firm conviction, based on the very words of Jesus Christ, that the Eucharist is His True Body and Blood. This was the continuous belief of Christians for centuries before the technical term "transubstantiation" was adopted, and for 1500+ before the ancient doctrine was rejected altogether by the Protestant new paradigm.
And I showed you that it wasn't until Trent that Rome formally declared its position on this topic.
And yes...I did show where there was debate about the Mass/Transubstantiation.
"Did any Christian believe the Mass was in contradiction to the NT until the 16th or 17th century?"
How 'bout these fellows?
24“Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with their words, unsettling your souls, 25it seemed good to us, having become of one mind, to select men to send to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27“Therefore we have sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28“For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials: 29that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell.” Acts 15: 24-29 NASB
Early enough?
I went to a Roman Catholic wedding where they had a full Mass, but I did not participate.
I never said you stated that directly but the tone insinuated you were inviting me not to post. Or why am I posting if I find the Catholic way difficult. As I stated in my first post, I was looking for viewpoints from both Catholics and Prots on the topic and what they thought of this new phenomenon a German Bishop has unleashed on the world.
Because you’re attributing the church to Peter only and ignoring the other Apostles. They had just as much to do with the formation of the Christian Church as Peter.
What did they do besides the wafer and wine drink?
Be specific, please.
Most of the Mass is in the Bible.
The very topic we've been discussing on this thread. If you get that wrong, the whole thing is wrong.
What did they do besides the wafer and wine drink?
Don't remember in great detail.
I sat in the back.
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