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“Whatever You Can Do to Stop Communion in the Hand Will be Blessed by God” ~ Fr. John Hardon S.J.
Church Militant blogspot ^ | unknown | John Andrew Dorsey

Posted on 11/20/2017 4:45:50 PM PST by ebb tide

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“Whatever You Can Do to Stop Communion in the Hand Will be Blessed by God” ~ Fr. John Hardon S.J.


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Not to oppose error is to approve it, and not to defend the truth is to suppress it” – Pope St. Felix III

The decline of belief and faith among Catholics has been spiraling downward ever since the introduction of Communion in the hand in 1969. What started out as disobedience among a few select bishops in Belgium in the 1960’s, has now been spread like wildfire among the average Catholic worldwide, in what is largely known in the Catholic world as a third rail topic. There is widespread confusion as to how this can be a disobedient act when it has been approved by the Church. The facts are that Communion on the tongue is still the law of the Church, while Communion in the hand is an exception to the law granted by an indult, which was granted with severe reservations by Pope Paul VI in his encyclical letter “Memoriale Domini”. Fr. Matthias Gaudron explains how this happened in his book The Cathechism of the Crisis in the Church, “Communion in the hand was first practiced without any authorization in a few very progressive groups against the explicit rules of the Church.” And it is that fact that I will explore further in this essay. Fr. Gaudron continues, “On May 29, 1969, the Instruction Memoriale Domini took cognizance of this disobedience and reiterated in detail the advantages of Communion on the tongue” (156). Fr. Gaudron explains that after a survey was given to the bishops about whether not they would be in support of introducing Communion in the hand, 58 percent opposed it, and only 27 percent were in favor of it (156).

The outcome of this practice has been a large diminishing of the belief of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. A gallop poll taken only a few years ago, the results of which were referenced in the Remnant Newspaper, indicates that just 30 percent of U.S. Catholics now believe in the True Presence. The other 70 percent did not, and their belief system was sprinkled with an odd mixture of Protestant belief and Catholic Theology, or they simply had no understanding of authentic Catholic teaching.

The first objection one gets initially when approaching this subject is a mistaken notion that goes like this: But Jesus gave the Apostles Communion in the hand; therefore we are doing what Christ did at the last supper. There are two major things wrong with that statement. First of all, this is an assumption. And even if Jesus did indeed give Communion in the hand to the Apostles, we have to keep in mind that the Apostles were priests and Bishops, possessing consecrated hands.

kneeling

Secondly, there is a traditional custom of middle-eastern hospitality that was definitely in practice in Jesus’ time, and still exist to this day, which is, the host feeds his guests with his own hand, placing a symbolic morsel in the mouth of the guest. A thorough reading of the text of St. John’s Gospel states (13:26-30): “Jesus answered, ‘It is he to whom I shall give this Morsel when I have dipped It.’ So when He had dipped the Morsel, He gave It to Judas… So, after receiving the Morsel, he [Judas] immediately went out…” Would Jesus have placed a wet Morsel into Judas’ hand? That would not only be unlikely, but very messy. Wouldn’t He had expressed the gesture of hospitality to the person of Judas, whom He called friend later that evening in the garden, most especially during the institution of the Eucharist at the Last Supper with Holy Communion, “giving Himself by His own Hand”?

There is a faction of progressive Catholics who either knowingly or unknowingly obscure the facts of history. They mistakenly believe that they are returning to the ancient practice of the early Christians. But the facts show that this simply isn’t the case. It is true that Holy Communion in the hand did indeed happen. However, when we read the Early Church Fathers we discover the reasons for why Holy Communion in the hand was allowed. It was only tolerated during times of Church persecution.

Dr. Taylor Marshall has researched this subject and reports that Saint Basil had this to say on this subject. “Communion in the hand is allowed only in two instances, 1) under times of persecution where no priest is present, 2) for hermits and ascetics in the wilderness who do not have priests.” This point needs to be stressed; it was a rare exception, and not the norm. Otherwise, according to Saint Basil, to receive Communion in the hand was considered a “grave immoderation” under normal circumstances. This practice goes way back in Church history. One of the earliest references we have about it is from Pope St. Sixtus I, who reigned from 115-125 AD, “it is prohibited for the faithful to even touch the sacred vessels, or receive in the hand”. Saint Paul himself mentions the importance of the Eucharist repeatedly in the scriptures and how one should not approach it unworthily in 1 Corinthians chapters ten and eleven.

Belief in the Real Presence in the Eucharist is taken straight from scripture. When Jesus told His disciples that “My Flesh is real food and My Blood real drink” (Jn. 6:55), His disciples took Him literally and said, “This sort of talk is hard to endure! How can anyone take it seriously?” (Jn. 6:60). St. John’s Gospel continues to report; “Jesus was fully aware that His disciples were murmuring in protest at what He had said” (Jn. 6:61). John then states that, “From this time on, many of His disciples broke away and would not remain in His company any longer. Jesus then said to the Twelve Disciples, “Do you want to leave Me too?” (Jn. 6:66-67). “The Twelve stayed with Jesus because they trusted His words” (Jn. 6:69-71).

Jesus was fully aware that the departing disciples understood His teaching literally. If Jesus had only meant that they would eat his Body and drink his Blood symbolically, He would have said so before they walked away. And there are plenty of places in Scripture where the disciples were confused about His teachings so Jesus retold the parable in a way they could understand it, making the message clearer to them. Since He didn’t try to re-explain what He meant when instituting the Eucharist, we know that He meant His words literally, and of course, not in a cannibalistic sense, but supernaturally.

For the last thousand years, and right up to today, Eucharistic miracles have continued to occur that baffle believers and non-believers. Now, thanks to modern technology and modern science, we can examine them thoroughly. The subject of which has been written about extensively in Joan Carroll Cruz’s book, Eucharistic Miracles. Another wonderful book about the origins of the Eucharist, and as to why Jesus would establish such a practice, which by the way goes straight back to the Old Testament and Ancient Judaism, I highly recommend Dr. Brandt Pitre’s book, Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist.

The teaching on Christ’s Eucharistic Presence was not sincerely contested until the eleventh century, a thousand years after He instituted it. According to Rev. Regis Scanlon, Berengarius of Tours began teaching that Christ was present in the Eucharist only “as mere sign and symbol” and that after the consecration, “bread must remain.” Berengarius held, “That which is consecrated (the bread) is not able to cease existing materially”. In the thirteen century, St. Thomas Aquinas names “Berengarius, the first deviser of this heresy,” claiming that the consecrated Bread and Wine are only a “sign” of Christ’s Body and Blood.”

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St. Thomas gives a valid reason why bread and wine does not remain once the consecration takes place, “Because it would be opposed to the veneration of this sacrament, if any substance were there, which could not be adored with adoration of “latria”.” Meaning, Catholics would be guilty of the sin of idolatry by worshipping the bread and wine. Therefore, the physical nature of bread and wine no longer remains, it only appears to remain.
The Council of Trent (1545-1563), agrees with what St. Thomas correctly taught:

If anyone says that in the sacred and holy sacrament of the Eucharist there remains the substance of bread and wine together with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and denies that wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the Body, and of the entire substance of the wine into the Blood, the species of the bread and wine only remaining, a change which the Catholic Church most fittingly calls transubstantiation: let him be anathema (79).

This Council was called to declare Catholic Truth that was being challenged by the Protestant Revolt led by Martin Luther, a renegade Monk who suffered from severe scrupulosity, and sadly, due to his misinterpretations of scripture, as well as his adding to and removal of them, split the Church, leaving us today with over 34,000 Protestant groups and counting.

By the time of the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965), there were in place a somewhat large faction of progressive theologians, many of whom were censored by Pius XII, who managed to get themselves invited into the Council by Pope John XXIII, and to even participate in its preceding’s. These theologians were successful in holding sway at the Council, much to the orthodox bishops frustrations, and helped to word the sixteen documents produced from the Council with ambiguous language that has confused the faithful right up to this day. Then, in 1969, some of these same theologians helped to promulgate a new Mass by eliciting the aid of the then current Pope Paul VI. With this Mass in place, the rapid decline of Catholic belief, Mass attendance, and religious vocations began.

Adding to this confusion was the progressive undertakings of a group of bishops who incessantly had one agenda in mind, the introduction of Communion in the hand. Communion in the hand was illegally introduced into Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, France, and the United States. The Church adamantly opposed this disobedient and abusive practice from the very beginning. According to Bishop Laise, from his book Communion in the Hand, On October 12, 1965, the “Consilium” wrote to Bernard Cardinal Alfrink, Archbishop of Utrecht, Netherlands, “The Holy Father does not consider it opportune that the sacred Particle be distributed in the hand and later consumed in different manners by the faithful, and therefore, he vehemently exhorts [that] the Conference offer the opportune resolutions so that the traditional manner of communicating be restored” (32).

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Pope Paul VI vehemently looked for a solution to this crisis. He considered two options, either close the door to all concessions, or allow the concession only where its use was already established. The Pope took a risk and asked for the opinions of the local bishops to help him in this growing disobedience. Unfortunately, the bishops did not help Pope Paul VI, but opened the doors even wider for abuse. Communion in the hand was introduced without authorization, the Pope persistently opposed allowing it but decided to grant an indult, but only where its use was firmly established so as not to call attention to the disobedience of those bishops among their flock.

Pope Paul VI’s compromise was the document Memoriale Domini (May 29, 1969), while reconfirming that Communion on the tongue is “more conducive to faith, reverence and humility.” The Pope wisely cautioned that Communion in the hand “carries certain dangers with it which may arise from the new manner of administering Holy Communion: the danger of a loss of reverence for the August sacrament of the altar, of profanation, of adulterating the true doctrine.”

There are plenty of Catholics who sincerely believe that it makes no difference on how they receive Communion. They don’t understand the law of the Church, the history, or the warnings against receiving Communion in the hand. Pope Paul VI again repeated in Memoriale Domini the Churches position on this matter, “He should not forget, on the other hand, that the position of the Holy See in this matter is not a neutral one, but rather that it vehemently exhorts him to diligently submit to the law in force (Communion on the tongue).

The truth of the matter is that Communion in the hand was spread through disobedience to the Pope. Pope Paul VI tried hard to put into place many obstacles to slow this disobedient practice from spreading. In Memoriale Domini he stated four restrictions; (a) the indult could only be requested if Communion in the hand was an already established custom in the country, and (b) if by a secret vote and with a two-thirds majority the episcopal conference petitions Rome, c) then Rome would grant the necessary permission, (d) once the permission was granted, several conditions had to exist simultaneously (among these conditions, no loss of sacred particles and no loss of faith in the Real Presence) (En réponse à la demande). If any of those conditions were not met than Communion in the hand was not permitted, even with the indult. These restrictions are part of the Pope’s instructions which are found attached to his document Memoriale Domini.

008Communion_ICI-4-1-65

However, the American bishops successfully managed to maneuver around Pope Paul VI’s restrictions. The late Cardinal Joseph Bernardin, the then president of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, unsuccessfully attempted twice to establish Communion in the hand in America, in 1975 and 1976. Unfortunately, he finally prevailed in May 1977 when Communion in the hand was illegally authorized in the United States. The bishops totally ignored Pope Paul VI’s requirements expressed in his indult about not allowing the practice of Communion in the hand where it was not already established.

Proceeding on their own initiative, the American bishops decided to vote on whether not they could get this disobedient practice introduced into their own country, despite all the historical evidence and warnings by Saints and Doctors of the Church throughout Her two thousand year history, warning against such a practice.

After the initial voting had concluded, Archbishop Bernardin reported that the vote had fallen short of the required two-thirds of all legally present members and that the matter could not be concluded until the absent bishops were polled. Bernardin was dead-set on getting Communion in the hand one way or another, even if it had just been voted down. To get around the lack of votes, bishops who were not present, retired, or even dying, were polled illegally.

Canon lawyer, Fr. Kunz, has stated that obtaining votes from absent bishops absolutely invalidates the petition for an indult, making the indult non-void. This tactic manipulated and masterminded by Cardinal Bernardin to acquire the votes simply makes the indult invalid, since only members present at the meeting could legally vote. Renowned theologian Fr. John Hardon, S.J., stated in 1997, “To get enough votes to give Communion on the hand, bishops who were retired, bishops who were dying, were solicited to vote to make sure that the vote would be an affirmative in favor of Communion in the hand. Whatever you can do to stop Communion in the hand will be blessed by God.”

Hardon-Face

The result of Cardinal Bernardin efforts in swaying the American bishops into promoting Communion in the hand, resulted in the Holy See granting permission for the indult which allowed Communion in the hand in the United States. The National Catholic Register quotes Bishop Blanchette:

“What bothers me is that in the minds of many it will seem that disobedience is being rewarded. And that troubles me because if people persist in being disobedient, and that is used as a reason for changing the discipline, then we’re very close to chaos or what I would call selective obedience, which is no obedience at all.” (National Catholic Register, “Bishop Blanchette: A Clear Call for Obedience,” June 12, 1977)

Having been a Catholic for eight years, I have witnessed the lack of reverence and indifference among Catholics who go to Communion. The majority receive in the hand, their body language and stance clearly shows that they either don’t believe in the Eucharist, or simply haven’t been told about Who and What It truly is. All polls are consistent with what I and other Catholics have suspected all along. Since the illegal introduction of Communion in the hand, belief in the Real Presence has not only plummeted, it is simply not being taught nor emphasized.

It wasn’t until October of 2008, over four years of being a Catholic, did I have the good fortune of meeting a traditional Catholic Priest, Fr. Isaac Mary Relyea, who not only instructed me properly on this Church teaching, but on many others as well.

Communion in the hand, and the lack of solid Catholic formation, has certainly attributed to this loss of faith. Fr. John Hardon has affirmed, “Behind Communion in the hand, I wish to repeat and make as plain as I can, is a weakening, a conscious, deliberate weakening of faith in the Real Presence.”

pope-benedict-and-communion-kneeling

So today it seems we are stuck with Communion in the hand. Pope Benedict XVI has spoken out numerous times that he is not in favor of this practice. He has even made it known that anyone attending his Mass in Saint Peter’s Square must receive Holy Communion kneeling and on the tongue. It would be wonderful if the holy Father would entirely do away with this practice, most especially since it was only granted permission through an illegal voting process, and since it was introduced through an act of disobedience.

Faithful Catholics like myself either look the other way, try to educate others, or simply avoid a Mass that allows Communion in the hand. Today, I have taken the last option and attend only the Tridentine Mass, or the Extraordinary Form of the Mass, codified by Pope Pius V in 1570. There is nothing in the rubrics that will allow Communion in the hand, it is the most ancient form of the Mass in existence, having been instituted over 1,500 years ago. Myself, and others pray for the day the Church fully returns to Her traditional practices and Communion in the hand is nothing more than a bad footnote in Church history, and an extinct one at that!

~ John Andrew Dorsey

Bibliography

Gaudron, Fr. Matthias. Catechism of the Crisis in the Church.

Kansas City: Angelus Press, 2010. Print.

Iacono, Kevin D. Dello. Semper Fidelis. Kevin D. Dello Iacono,

2007. Web. 27 Nov. 2012

Ignatius Catholic Study Bible: New Testament Ed. Curtis Mitch

and Scott Hahn. San Francisco: Ignatius, 2010. Print. Rev.

Standard Vers.

Laise, Most Rev. Juan Rodolfo. Communion in the Hand: Documents

and History. Boonville: Preserving Christian Publications,

2011. Print.

Marshall, Dr. Taylor. Canterbury Tales. Dr. Taylor Marshall,

2012. Web. 27 Nov. 2012.

Paul VI, Pope. “Memoriale Domini.” EWTN. Eternal World

Television Network, n.d. Web. 28 Nov. 2012.

Scanlon, Rev. Regis. Catholic Culture. Rev. Regis Scanlon, 2012.

Web. 27 Nov. 2012

Schroeder, Rev. H.J. The Canons and Decrees of the Council of

Trent. Trans. Rev. H.J. Schroeder. Rockford: Tan, 1978.

Print.

Toon, Howard. “Communion in the Hand while Standing: What’s the

problem?” Remnantnewspaper.com. The Remnant, 5 Jan. 2012.

Web. 27 Nov. 2012.�

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TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: paulvi; vcii
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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To: HiTech RedNeck; ebb tide
From what I see you got 99% intrigue, 1% Christianity. No wonder Luther, bless his heart at least for trying, ended up walking off.

Intrigue is a gracious word to use.

161 posted on 11/22/2017 6:03:57 AM PST by DungeonMaster (Goblins, Orcs and the Undead: Metaphors for the godless left.)
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To: Zuriel; ebb tide
You couldn’t even say, “Jesus Christ”, or even capitalize “his”?

Perhaps ET doesn't know that the NT was written in uncials.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Testament_uncials

162 posted on 11/22/2017 6:04:44 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Arthur McGowan
You have such boring things to say.

The evidence you provide says the opposite.

Normal people IGNORE bores; not RESPOND to them.

163 posted on 11/22/2017 6:06:33 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Iscool
Perhaps it's because Catholics post on a public forum that God will bless something which in fact is made up out of thin air which has the potential to lead wayward souls to a false religion...

HERETIC!!!


 




The 15 promises

(Given to St. Dominic and Blessed Alan de la Roche)

1 Whoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall receive powerful graces.
2. I promise my special protection and the greatest graces to all those who shall recite the Rosary.
3. The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin, and defeat heresies
4. It will cause virtue and good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of people from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire of eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means.
5. The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish.
6. Whoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying Himself to the consideration of its Sacred Mysteries shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise Him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just, he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of eternal life.
7. Whoever shall have a true devotion for the Rosary shall not die without the Sacraments of the Church.
8. Those who are faithful to recite the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plentitude of His graces; at the moment of death they shall participate in the merits of the Saints in Paradise.
9. I  shall deliver from purgatory those who have been devoted to the Rosary.
10. The faithful children of the Rosary shall merit a high degree of glory in Heaven.
11. You shall obtain all you ask of me by the recitation of the Rosary.
12. All those who propagate the Holy Rosary shall be aided by me in their necessities.
13. I  have obtained from my Divine Son that all the advocates of the Rosary shall have for intercessors the entire celestial court during their life and at the hour of death
14. All who recite the Rosary are my children, and brothers and sisters of my only Son, Jesus Christ.
15. Devotion of my Rosary is a great sign of predestination.

 

"The Most Holy Virgin in these last times in which we live has given a new efficacy to the recitation of the Rosary to such an extent that there is no problem,

no matter how difficult it is, wheter temporal or above all spiritual, in the personal life of each one of us, of our families...that cannot be solved by the Rosary.

There is no problem, I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we cannot resolve by the prayer of the Holy Rosary."

Sister Lucia dos Santos

164 posted on 11/22/2017 6:08:13 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
...Stop Communion...

I really need to slow down and read better.

I thought I read COMMUNISM


Just another Prot error I guess...

165 posted on 11/22/2017 6:11:28 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Arthur McGowan

“You have such boring things to say.”

Paul faced this same response...

“Concerning Him we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.”

(Hebrews 5:11)


166 posted on 11/22/2017 6:31:52 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Undistributed middle.

Great artists have starved in a garret.
I am starving in a garret.
Therefore, I am a great artist.


167 posted on 11/22/2017 6:33:49 AM PST by Arthur McGowan (https://youtu.be/hj3e8cKZWiY)
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To: Arthur McGowan

“I am starving in a garret.”

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a clearer Freudian statement.


168 posted on 11/22/2017 6:41:13 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: Arthur McGowan
Therefore, I am a great artist.

No....you're a 9-1-1 TRUTHER just like Rosie O'Donnell.

169 posted on 11/22/2017 6:44:24 AM PST by ealgeone
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To: Elsie

I seem to remember that Jesus is God and is therefore omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent.

So there, nyah nyah, and other RF debate tactics.


170 posted on 11/22/2017 7:00:54 AM PST by Luircin
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To: ealgeone

IIRC, that the second no vote we got.

Not looking good for reasons to want to join the OTC ( tm)


171 posted on 11/22/2017 9:18:59 AM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
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To: Luircin

...and they wuzen’t written down; either!!


172 posted on 11/22/2017 10:25:58 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ealgeone

Aaahhh.

Now you are just plain obsessed with me.

LOL.


173 posted on 11/22/2017 3:53:47 PM PST by Arthur McGowan (https://youtu.be/hj3e8cKZWiY)
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To: Arthur McGowan
In your wildest dreams. All I did was check out your youtube link and your home page.

Imagine...you and Rosie in the same company.

174 posted on 11/22/2017 4:47:18 PM PST by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone

Ha ha.

You’re just plain obsessed with me! You just can’t stop following me from thread to thread! You just have to keep chiming in!


175 posted on 11/22/2017 5:55:08 PM PST by Arthur McGowan (https://youtu.be/hj3e8cKZWiY)
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To: Arthur McGowan
You do realize I was on the thread before you....

btw....are you still a Roman Catholic priest? You had claimed to be before.

It's a simple yes or no question.

176 posted on 11/22/2017 6:01:35 PM PST by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone
You had claimed to be before.

Say; I remember reading that too; somewhere.

177 posted on 11/23/2017 3:13:56 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Luircin; Elsie; Arthur McGowan; ealgeone; DungeonMaster
I don’t think I have any stake in this game; I’m not in the mood to get both sides turning on me because I believe in the Real Presence. But I do note how nasty OP remains to everyone else.

Well, you need to have the right version of the Real Presence, that of "the actual partaking of Christ in person," "the very body" "true and proper and lifegiving flesh and blood of Jesus Christ," whole and entire in His physical "reality,” "with His bodily organs and limb," His flesh being "corporeal, not spiritual" with the actual partaking being of Christ in person, hence literally,” yet not as "sensible, visible, tangible, or extended, although it is such in heaven," but under a "new mode of being," under the mere appearance of non-existent bread and wine, "in each particle and in each drop" until the bread or wine which no longer exist begin to decompose, but which scientifically test as bread and wine (thus persons with celiac disease suffer adverse effects to the non-existent gluten);

And which transubstantiation only a Catholic priest can effect, and sacrifice Christ who is "offered in reparation for the sins of the living and the dead and to obtain spiritual or temporal benefits from God," and "the work of our redemption is carried out,” "the manner alone of offering being different."

Which is then consumed as being “the medicine of immortality, the antidote for death, and the food that makes us live for ever in Jesus Christ," as as "You are what you eat and the Church becomes the Body of Christ by partaking of the Body of Christ—this is how we come to know Christ, who is Truth."

Sources

If that is not the "Real Presence" you believe in, then due to the metaphysical contrivance of Catholicism you too are guilty of heresy, while a docetist Christ (who was real but only appeared to have a real physical body) seems more akin in concept to a "real" substantially present bodily christ who temporarily merely appears as a mere actually non-existent inanimate object, but real (according to the same tests by which His incarnated body would prove to be real).

178 posted on 11/23/2017 7:56:56 PM PST by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: Luircin; Elsie
I seem to remember that Jesus is God and is therefore omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. So there, nyah nyah, and other RF debate tactics.

Certainly Christ can spiritually dwell in us, (Eph. 3:14) and among us, (Matthew 18:20) but that is simply not the Catholic version of "the Real Presence" as described, which system goes to great pains to justify how "this is My body which is broken for you" and "blood which is shed" is not the literal flesh and blood that was broken and shed for us - which a plainly literal reading of the words (which Caths claim they engage in) would mean, but is "the same body" "corporeal, not spiritual," that is not literally the same, but "a new form," under the temporary appearance of inanimate objects which do really do not exist but do, according (as said) to the same tests by which His incarnated body would prove to be real.

It is amazing yet grievous what by erroneous extrapolation the flesh can read into Scripture which fails to teach it. This is not the like the Trinity, a basically simple but non-contradictory explanation demanded by many texts which state facts and reconcile them, which no other explanation which does.

For in addition to teaching such things we do not see in the only inspired record of the NT church which reveals how they understood the gospels, such as as Catholic priests uniquely effecting charges and offering the confection as a sacrifice for sin, and this being a central practice of the church whereby the participants spiritually fed and obtain eternal life, the metaphorical understanding most easily explains and reconciles all the texts, and conflates with the rest of Scripture. Thanks be to God.

179 posted on 11/23/2017 9:03:00 PM PST by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: daniel1212
I'd say that most of us Prots are Doubting Thomas' when it comes to believing in the 'Real Presence'.

Y'all remember ol' Tom; don't you?

The one who said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

I've always wondered why Jesus didn't tell him to lick his finger to get the benefit of the REALLY 'Real Presence'.


But; perhaps He did. After all; hasn't Rome taught it's minions to lean on THIS verse whenever any of it's extraneous teachings are challenged??


Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

John 21:25

180 posted on 11/24/2017 3:30:20 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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