Where'd the TIME angle disappear to?
Posted on 08/02/2017 2:07:44 PM PDT by detective
As to why Jesus entrusted His mother to John, the answer may not be all that perplexing
But if they were they showed no regards for their older brother so why would they honor Jesus`s wish that John care for his mother.
They would have no regards for what Jesus said.
No way, if Jesus had younger brothers and sisters they would not have accepted John, they would have threw a fit.
Also i believe the Navajo`s use brother for cousin even in the English language, my niece who is Navajo explained it to me but i can not remember any details.
I also have a Daughter who went to the Synagogue for years and she said it was common for a cousin to be called brother.
As i mentioned the only fact is that the scriptures say Jesus had brothers, incidentally who never thought much of him which indicates they may have been older step brothers or cousins.
But we are not really talking about brothers are we, what we are really talking about is the children of Mary.
The scriptures say nothing about any child born by Mary other than Jesus, so according to scripture Mary had only one child.
That is what i believe.
Thank you for that kind post. Yes, we must always search for the truth. Any time we try to justify man-made traditions at the expense of Scripture, we’re on thin ice at best.
Of course if you can identify any broadly recognized non-Catholic scholars of note who also give, ‘cousin,’ as one meaning of, ‘adelphos,’ the point is neutralized.
Religion seems to mean more than truth and common sense on both sides.
I appreciate your post. You argue respectfully and sincerely. That’s not always seen on the religion forum [though to the moderater’s credit, the absence not infrequently carries reprocussions].
Ravenwolf, when it comes to the brothers—adelphoi—of Jesus, we have two things. One, what the Scripture says, and Two, our opinions. We can’t prove anything by our opinions, because as often as not they cancel each other out. So if we really want to get anywhere, we need to see what the Holy Spirit, via His inspired Scripture, has told us.
I looked around and found a quote by John Ankerberg [a Baptist] that does a better job than I have done in discussing, ‘adelphos,’ vs, ‘anepsios.’ Please let me know what you think.
‘[T]here is a big problem in [claiming that Jesus’ brothers and sisters were actually cousins or other kinsmen]. The reason being that there was an exact term for cousin, anepsios, a very well known word in New Testament times. This word for cousin is not used in any of the passages [that refer] to Jesus’ brothers or sisters. On the other hand, the word for cousin is used in Colossians 4:10 where Paul writes, “Aristarchus sends you his greetings as does Mark, the cousin (anepsios) of Barnabas.”
So the New Testament writers knew the exact word for cousin but didn’t use it in referring to Jesus’ brothers. In addition, the word for kinsmen (suggenes) occurs eleven times in the New Testament [such as in Luke 1:36 to identify Elizabeth as Mary’s “relative”]. But it never appears in any of the passages describing the children of Mary and Joseph.
So, if the writers of the New Testament really meant to say that the brothers of our Lord Jesus were merely cousins or kinsmen, it seems strange that they never used the correct words to do so, words they used in other passages to describe other people’s cousins or kinsmen.
Finally, the word for brother which is used in speaking about Jesus’ brothers is the word adelphos, and for “sister” it is adelphe. Adelphos and adelphe can sometimes be used in a wider sense. But their primary meaning speaks of a relationship of shared parentage. Unless the context suggests otherwise — and in none of these passages is that the case — this must be the primary meaning of the word that is intended.’
Your comment reminds me of one of the reasons I like the New American Standard Bible so much. The scholars that translated it came from a variety of denominational backgrounds. That is such a key fact, yet so easy to overlook.
In practical terms, here is what it means (to have a translation that is the work of scholars representing a spectrum of faith traditions). Namely, they can’t undertake their work as simply an affirmation of their particular denominational beliefs. Rather, they have to argue the merit of their translation preferences, and get a majority of fellow scholars to agree.
I would imagine there were more than a few heated discussions on the way to producing the final product! But I read this translation in confidence, often referring to the footnotes, and profoundly appreciative of the scholarship that made it possible. It is a first rate translation!
Speaking of very limited vocabularies.
Why waste time and money?
What???
You could say that about loving your spouse or your kids. You could say that about talking to your mother! You could say that about posting on FR!
And where’d the money angle come in? None of that costs money.
Why do you relate to *anyone*? Why do you love *anyone*?
Is everyone a waste of time?
Sincere questions.
“Pictures of my late father Edward, my late mother Wynne, and my Great-Aunt Clara (who raised my Mother) as well as my friends Nita and Billy and their daughter Mary Katherine...are in our Prayer Corner along with icons of angels and saints...And we do have candles. And upon occasion, incense!”
E-ww-w!
I see...
Where'd the TIME angle disappear to?
Why does the Roman Catholic think we can only come to Jesus through Mary?
Sincere questions.
Perhaps you might consult a dictionary.
Perhaps you buy a thesaurus to help expand your limited vocabulary.
The threads you continue to post must not be getting any replies. Not even your fellow Catholics, if you have any, are posting to you. You must be getting lonely there in the church of ebb.
Why would you think it makes sense in light of this?
Matthew 1:18-25 Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit. And her husband Joseph, being a just man and unwilling to put her to shame, resolved to divorce her quietly.
But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us). When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife, but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.
Psalm69:8 I have become a stranger to my brothers, an alien to my mother's sons.
Matthew 1:24-25 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife, but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.
Matthew 12:46-47 While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.”
Matthew 13:55 “Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?”
Mark 6:2-3 And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, “Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands?”... “Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?”
John 2:12 After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers, and His disciples; and there they stayed a few days.”
Acts 1:14 These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.
1 Corinthians 9:4-5 Do we not have a right to eat and drink? Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?
Galatians 1:19 But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lord’s brother.
Strong's Concordance
http://biblehub.com/greek/80.htm
adelphos: a brother
Original Word: ἀδελφός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: adelphos
Phonetic Spelling: (ad-el-fos')
Short Definition: a brother
Definition: a brother, member of the same religious community, especially a fellow-Christian.
Here is a link to the occurrences of the Greek word *adelphos*.
http://biblehub.com/greek/80.htm
The word *sister* (adelphe) in the Greek is the same.
http://biblehub.com/greek/79.htm
The word used is *brother* not *cousin*.
It can't mean a member of the same religious community in the context in which they occur, because then that would mean every man in Israel could be identified as Jesus' brother. So that would not identify Jesus as anyone in particular's brother.
It's not going to mean *brother in Christ* as that concept was not yet in place and the Jews, who knew Jesus as a Jew and knew His brothers as Jews, would not even begin to understand the new birth and what being in Christ meant.
They didn't even understand who JESUS was, much less being a *brother in Christ*.
The only definition left then, is to mean physical brother.
And it would not be *cousin*.
The word for *relative* that is used for Elizabeth is *suggenes*, not *adelphe*.
http://biblehub.com/greek/4773.htm
Strong's Concordance
suggenes: akin, a relative
Original Word: συγγενής, ές
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: suggenes
Phonetic Spelling: (soong-ghen-ace')
Short Definition: akin, a relative
Definition: akin to, related; subst: fellow countryman, kinsman.
Jesus’ own brothers did not believe in Him until after He died.
No way they were going near that cross.
Luke 2:6-7 And while they were there, the time came for her to give birth. And she gave birth to her firstborn son and wrapped him in swaddling cloths and laid him in a manger, because there was no place for them in the inn.
*FIRSTBORN* not *only born*.
Besides, why do Catholics insist that Mary never had sex or had other children? What possible difference could it make in God's plan for the salvation of mankind?
If Luke had wanted to say Mary had only one child he could have used another word, μονογενής (monogenés, 3439 monogenḗs (from 3411 /misthōtós, "one-and-only" and 1085 /génos, "offspring, stock") – properly, one-and-only; "one of a kind" – literally, "one (monos) of a class, genos" (the only of its kind).)
With Luke being a doctor, and his thorough research, he would have known if Mary had other children or not.
That he did not use monogenés is very revealing.
It tells us Mary had other children when the other texts regarding His family are mentioned.
Still stalking, I see.
1) Catholics rely on Jesus Christ for salvation.
2) Jesus came to us through Mary.
He came by being incarnate, becoming actually human: a zygote, embryo, fetus, newborn, infant, child, adolescent, homeschooled I presume, learner and apprentice, advancing all the time in wisdom, and age, and grace before God and man, as Luke says. Think of it. What a marvel!
Mary was, by God’s decision and action, the maternal source of his human development ,-— as is any good woman who is engaged in splendid and dedicated mothering. This is as in the normal and ordinary course of things. Moreso in the case of Jesus and Mary, because she was His only biological parent, that is, His one natural connection to the human race which He had descended from heaven to join.
She was as well as the privileged witness, turned all of these things over in her heart —— meditating on Him! Such was her unity with Jesus, via empathy, that as was prophesied, her heart, like his, was pierced with the sword.
To see the mysteries of our salvation in Christ, through the eyes of Mary, is to see and share empathetically in Jesus’ actual family relationship to the human race.
I have become convinced that the deeper you get into the importance of the Incarnation as such, the deeper you get into Mary.
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