Venezuelan Bishops Pray to Virgin Mary to Free the Country from the ‘Claws of Communism’

Breitbart ^ | 2 Aug 2017 | Thomas D. Williams, Ph.D.

[detective]

The Venezuelan Episcopal Conference (CEV) has publicly invoked the intercession of the Virgin Mary to free the nation “from the claws of communism,” in a clear reference to the regime of President Nicolás Maduro.

“Blessed Virgin, Mother of Coromoto, heavenly Patron of Venezuela, free our country from the claws of communism and socialism,” the CEV posted on Twitter this Sunday, complete with an image of Santa Maria and a Venezuelan flag.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

You are really straining here, but you’d be better served to slow down and read what I wrote.

I stated the fact that Catholics bow down before idols of Mary. I did not say they worshipped idols of Mary. They certainly do idolize her.

I also stated that you cannot know they are not worshipping.

you then proved my point by you admitting no one can know hearts but God.

[ebb tide]

I stated the fact that Catholics bow down before idols of Mary.

That is not a fact; it's fiction.

[ebb tide]

They certainly do idolize her.

Care to prove it? Or do you just like to toss out false accusations?

[Elsie]

What do we learn from the Biblical examples?

Uh...

..that NONE of the examples show the kind of EXCESS that is exhibited with Rome's Mary?

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Keep spin in', ebb! 😂

[Mrs. Don-o]

Nah. Just prostration. We go lower!

[Mrs. Don-o]

I think we have a difficulty here, due to the elasticity of definition of that word "idolize".

It could mean "enthusiastically admire" (like, the kids idolizes Spiderman.)

It could mean just "put on a pedestal" (like, "Antifa says we should not idolize Washington and Lincoln.")

It could mean "deify" (like, "Don't idolize Diana!)

That's why it's a word one might choose to insinuate something, but an inapt word if what you want is exact accuracy.

That's why a word like "venerate" is better.

That's why careful, truthful people -- especially in settings where misunderstanding may arise --- use exact terminology like Dulia, Hyperdulia, and Latria.

I appreciate keeping this in mind for clearer communication.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“I appreciate keeping this in mind for clearer communication.

I used the word idolize very precisely.

You can choose whichever word you prefer.

[ravenwolf]

I wonder who the saints were in the churches that Paul wrote his epistles to

---

Actually Paul was talking about what some scholars believe was a special collection for the Saints at Jerusalem.

2 Cor 8
3 For I testify that according to their ability, and beyond their ability, they gave of their own accord,

4 begging us with much urging for the favor of participation in the support of the saints,

2 Cor 9:1
For it is superfluous for me to write to you about this ministry to the saints;

2 Cor 9:12
For the ministry of this service is not only fully supplying the needs of the saints, but is also overflowing through many thanksgivings to God.

Romans 15:25
but now, I am going to Jerusalem serving the saints.

Romans 15:26
For Macedonia and Achaia have been pleased to make a contribution for the poor among the saints in Jerusalem.

Romans 15:31
that I may be rescued from those who are disobedient in Judea, and that my service for Jerusalem may prove acceptable to the saints;

[metmom]

Because we all believe in what the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church teaches.

Unless y'all don't like the current pope then Catholic teaching is all up for grabs.

Just pick your favorite version of Catholicism from church history, claim it's the OTC, and run with it and label anyone who disagrees with you as a heretic.

[metmom]

ampu:I stated the fact that Catholics bow down before idols of Mary.

et:That is not a fact; it's fiction.

Hey, ampu, look who's wrong and it isn't you.

[metmom]

OF course Catholics idolize her.

They literally make statutes, put them on a pedestal, bow down before them and pray to them while bowing down.

THAT is idolizing her.

[ebb tide]

Is a statue of Robert E. Lee an idol?

Is the Lincoln Memorial an idol?

Is the Vietnam Memorial Wall an idol?

Is the above an idol?

[ebb tide]

Is a statue of Robert E. Lee an idol?

Is the Lincoln Memorial an idol?

Is the Vietnam Memorial Wall an idol?

Is the above an idol?

[ebb tide]

Unless y'all don't like the current pope...

I guess you've never noticed my tagline.

[Mrs. Don-o]

If making a statue and putting it on a pedestal is idolizing, ISIS and Antifa are right! Down with them all!

If bowing to anyone but God is idolatry, then King David and most of the revered (oops!) faithful ones of Israel were idolaters.

1 Kings 1:15 Bathsheba bows low (face to the ground) and kneels before the aged king David

2 Kings 1:13 the captain kneels before the prophet Elijah, and “prays” him to spare his life and the life of his 50 men

Moses bows down to father-in-law;

Ruth bows down to Boaz;

David prostrates before Jonathan;

David prostrates to Saul;

Abigail prostrates to David;

Saul prostrates to Samuel;

Nathan prostrates to David; Obadiah bows to the ground before Elijah;

the prophets in Jericho bow before Elisha;

the “whole assembly” bows low and prostrates before David;

David bows to the Temple;

David prostrates to Jerusalem;

God causes the king’s adversaries to bow prostrate on the ground and “lick the dust at his feet”;

God promises: the sons of the oppressors will bow to Zion.

And of course the majority of Christians from the martyrs in the First Century catacombs in Rome to the martyred Christian Chaldeans in 21st Century Iraq, are blasphemers and idolators.

And if so, ISiS is right, after all.

---

In your view, do all of these bows and prostrations,referenced above, constitute a violation of the First Commandment?

If YES, why are these bows/prostrations so often repeated by righteous people, and never condemned in context?

If NO, why is this NOT a violation of the First Commandment?

[ravenwolf]

New Testament use of the word for, ‘cousin,’: Further information: ---------------------------------------------------------- Yes if you read an NIV but that don`t tell me nothing, as these word definitions can take any one where ever they want to go. adelphos means brother in Greek, but it also means cousin, uncle, nephew or even kinsmen. Read below, not my writing but is the only thing which makes sense to me.. BROTHERS AND SISTERS OF JESUS Fr. William Saunders In the New American Bible's English translation of the Gospel of St. Mark we do indeed read about the crowd asking, "Isn't this the carpenter, the son of Mary, a brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? Aren't His sisters our neighbors here?" (Mk 6:3) A similar reference occurs earlier in Mk 3:31—"His mother and brothers arrived...." The problem emerges in understanding the meaning of the word brother. In the original text of the Gospel, we find the Greek word meaning brother, used. However, does not just mean blood brothers born of the same parents. Rather, was used to describe brothers not born of the same parents, like a halfbrother or stepbrother. The word also described other relationships, like cousins, nephews, etc. For example, in Gn 13:8 and 14:1416, the word was used to describe the relationship between Abraham and Lot; however, these two men did not share a brother relationship, but one of uncle and nephew. Another instance is that of Laban, who was an to Jacob, not as a brother, but as an uncle. (In the New American translation, "kinsman" or "relative" will be used in these Old Testament cases; I do not know why this is not true in the English translation of the Gospel.) The same is true for the word sister. Actually, the confusion originates in Hebrew and Aramaic, the languages of most of the original Old Testament texts and of Christ. In these languages, no special word existed for cousin, nephew, half-brother, or step-brother; so they used the word brother or a circumlocution, such as in the case of a cousin, "the son of the brother of my father." When the Old Testament was translated into Greek and the New Testament written in Greek, the word was used to capture all of these meanings. So in each instance, we must examine the context in which the title is used. In all, the confusion arises in English because of the lack of distinct terms for relatives in the Hebrew and Aramaic, and the usage of the Greek to signify all of these relations. Nevertheless, other Gospel passages clarify these relationships. James and Joses were the sons of Mary of Clophas (Mk 15:40). Judas was the son of James (not either of the Apostles) (Lk 6:16). James the Lesser was the son of Alphaeus (Lk 6:15). James the Greater and John were the sons of Zebedee with a mother other than our Blessed Mother Mary (Mt 20:20). The Gospels are also very clear that Mary was a virgin at the time she conceived Jesus through the power of the Holy Spirit (cf. Mt 1:18-25, Lk 1:26-38). Remember when the Archangel Gabriel announced to Mary God's plan, she responded, "How can this be, since I do not know man?" After the birth of our Lord, although the Gospels do not give us many details of His childhood, no mention is made of Mary and Joseph ever having other children. Never does it refer to the "sons of Mary" or "a son of Mary," but only the son of Mary. This point is again corroborated at the crucifixion scene: Before He dies, our Lord says to Mary, "Woman, there is your son," and then to St. John, who is definitely not a blood brother, "There is your mother." According to Jewish law, the oldest son had the responsibility of caring for the widowed mother, and that responsibility would pass to the next oldest if anything happened to the first-born son. By this time, St. Joseph has died. Since Jesus, the first born, had no "blood brother," He entrusted Mary to the care of St. John, the Beloved Disciple.

[Mrs. Don-o]

No. Actually, that is venerating her.

[Elsie]

...use exact terminology like Dulia, Hyperdulia, and Latria.

NONE of which was seen directed towards Mary of the Bible.

Well; until the year: ???

[Elsie]

You can choose whichever word you prefer.

 

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone,

' it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'