Jesus, Who Loves You, Warned Frequently About Hell

Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 05-24-17 | Msgr. Charles Pope

[omegatoo]

So if I stop believing in God, I lose my salvation?

Love,
O2

**T**A**G**L**I**N**E**

[Elsie]

If you're worshipping Mary and relying upon man made scapulars for salvation you're not a Christian.

If you're worshipping in the Corporation that Joseph Smith founded; and relying upon man made underwear for protection; you're going to CLAIM to be a Christian because the NAME of Mary's son is on the church sign.

[Elsie]

The most frequent objection to the doctrine of eternal security is that it supposedly allows people to live any way that they want and still be saved.

Just another , "Look!! Over THERE!!!" by the Catholic church; which has the confessional booth...

...which " allows people to live any way that they want and still be" forgiven by endlessly repeating a Catholic mantra.

[Elsie]

What is to the point is not as to whether you have accepted a "Jesus" (for there are many), but whether the Jesus of the Bible has accepted you as His property, wholly owned and not shared.

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What Joseph Smith Means to Us  (From: various sources )

 

 

 

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."

- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

 

 

 

 

"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."

- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88

 

 

 

 

"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"

- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)

There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

 

 

 

 

"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."

- Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

 

 

 

 

"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"

- Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670

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They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.

He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.

He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.

As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.

Who has made this so?

Have I?

Have this people?

Have the world?

No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.

If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.

If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.

Can you pass without his inspection?

No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.

In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.

They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?

They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?

Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

[Elsie]

But my salvation does not rest on anything I have done but on the finished work of Christ.

[Elsie]

So if I stop believing in God, I lose my salvation?

Yes.

You've read the Book.

[ealgeone]

Will a true believer stop believing?

[papertyger]

You better check with God on that one.

“Definitions” can be tricky things....

[papertyger]

Will a true believer stop believing?

So now you're grading believers? How can you believe something and not be a "true believer?"

[ealgeone]

Read 1 John. You’ll understand.

[ealgeone]

All I did was ask a question.

[papertyger]

Read 1 John. You’ll understand

Really? What part, specifically?

[ealgeone]

All of it.

[papertyger]

Okay.
Done.
Still not seein’ it.

[papertyger]

Okay.
Done.
Still not seein’ it.

[imardmd1]

Imardmd1: What sign do you have of acceptance by the Jesus of the Bible? (Post#157)

omegatoo: Are you saying that I am NOT saved by accepting Jesus as my Lord and Savior? (Post #168)

imardmd1: I most certainly am saying no such thing. God does the judging, not me, but anyone that has not been saved by faith in the Jesus of the Bible is most surely still under condemnation, no matter how religious. (Post #169)

omegatoo: I didn’t know a sign of acceptance was required. What should I be looking for? (Post #170)

imardmd1: Bingo! Why do you have to ask? (Post #172)

My presumption is that if you had been saved, you should have known exactly what the principal expected answer would be.

I avoided feeding you the answer, not wanting to compromise a properly original genuine answer. But I did hint in another post that the result of being baptized with and receiving the indwelling Holy Spirit (= rebirth, or reborn, or born anew, or born again) is the universal expected outcome of salvation by the Father and acceptance by Jesus, the Christ and Lord as defined by the Bible.

A person who has been saved by God and not by works has no trial period before His permanent assumption of ownership as His child and servant. It is non-optional and non-cancellable.

If that is not seen and perceived as well as heard and understood at the outset of responding to Jesus' appeal to come unto Him as a disciple, one's presumption of being saved is questionable. That is why the referral to the Scriptures on it was included.

Furthermore, since perceiving and understanding comes through the gift of faith by hearing the promises of God, that passage was included.

And since Jesus Himself fully confirmed that the gift of eternal life by faithful surrender to Him is through feeding on and digesting the written and spoken Words of God, that affirmative verse was also included.

Your response was:

omegatoo: I’m sorry, that answer is confusing.

Which gives pause as to whether you understand what salvation consists of. And:

You asked if I had received a sign that Jesus had accepted me, since you said that was necessary for my salvation and that my faith alone was not sufficient.

I did not say this at all. But the nature of your previous posts causes one to wonder whether your assumptions are valid, and to ask a discerning question, for which the answer ought to be obvious. It is the Holy Spirit who gives one the answer. His presence in your life and to Whom you are yielding control is a consequence of regeneration (the birth within you of a new spiritual person). That only comes from a total, unreserved, irreversible commitment to the Jesus of the Bible, and excludes allegiance to any other claimed messiah, no matter how similar.

Any other fake Jesus if challenged strongly enough, would let you be lost. But the Jesus of the Bible said of Himself and of the Father:

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish,
neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all;
and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand" (Jn. 10:27-29 AV).

Here's the deal: Any son or daughter of Adam can be either (1) a servant of Satan and a slave to Sin, or (2) be willing to agree to totally and irrevocably commit oneself to become a bondslave to Jesus Messiah as Lord and Master, and become a righteous servant, with the indwelling Holy Spirit as Guide. When that agreement is sealed by the occupancy of the Holy Ghost, the matter is then out of one's own hands, other than to be compliant to training in this new occupation.

What I know from personal experience is that if I consider disobedience to my Master Jesus, discipline by the Father will ensue, even to physical death if necessary. Cancelling the contract is not an option. Jesus has paid for all my sins, and I no longer have an escape from demonstrating the righteousness imputed to me on the basis of the pro quo exchange. It's the same for all of God's true People of the Word. No exceptions. And no one is preferred above another.

omegatoo: Are you saying that hearing and understanding the word of God is the sign?

That would be one outcome of the overcoming residence of a new spiritual person in your old physical husk, IMHO.

omegatoo: I already do that.

God will judge that. But if you do understand, your previous rresponses to this thread do not exactly show that. If you are willing to submit to further training as a disciple by a genuine discipler, you ought to seek it. That is, one who himself shows a sound foundation in the Biblical plan of salvation. And that would decisively not be the RCC one.

omegatoo: I would imagine that that is how most people come to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

If it is a genuine unretractible commitment of trust to the Jesus of the Bible, yes.

"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?" (2 Cor. 13:5 AV).

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[imardmd1]

I’m sorry, that answer is confusing.

Here are the ten signs that indicate a person's possession of salvation, the gracious, free gift of God to His faithful servants of The Only Begotten Son and King of Kings:

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TEN EVIDENCES (PROOFS) OF SALVATION

Notes by Dr. Fred Wittman
http://www.happyheralds.org/

The Witness of the Holy Spirit

o Within the child of God (Romans 8:9-16; 1 John 3:24)
o With another child of God (Romans 8:16)
o By fellowship with God (Romans 8: 14; 1 John 1:7)

The Witness of God

o Chastening (Heb. 12:5-11)

The Witness of Love

o For The God (Matthew 22:37; 1 John 5:1-3)
o For the brethren (John 13:34,35; 1 John 3:14-10; 4:7,8,11, o love1 Peter 1:22)
o For the neighbor (Matthew 5:43-45, 19:19, 22:39' Romans 13:8-10)

The Witness of Your Life

o A New Creature(2 Corinthians 5:17)
o Not practicing sin wilfully (1 John 3:7-10; Hebrews 10:26)

The Witness of God's Word

o Your reaction to it
. - Obedience to it (1 John 3 :24; James 1 :22; 1 John 2:3-5)
. - Resistance to it
. . > By Resisting (Acts 7:51-54)
. . > By Wresting (twisting) (2 Peter 3: 16)
o The Truth related by it (1 John 3:1-10)

The Witness of Holiness

o Following it (Hebrews 12:14b)

The Witness of Your Walk

o Behavior (1 John 2:6,29; 3:6-8)

The Witness of Christ's Preeminence

o Lord of ALL (Acts 10:36; Romans 10:9)

The Witness of Fruit

o Making/teaching more disciples (Matthew 7:15-20; John 15:2-8,16)

The Witness of Warfare

o Overcoming (1 John 5:4,5; 4:4; Revelation 2:7,11,17,26,27; 3 :5,12,21; 21 :7)

[imardmd1]

So now you're grading believers? How can you believe something and not be a "true believer?"

Sure. There are three classes of humans in this sense:

o unbeliever - either willful or ignorant

o unregenerated believer - without the indwelling Holy Spirit; commitment to ones own faithfulness and ability to do right

o regenerated believer - indwelt and advised by the Holy Spirit; commitment to the faithfulness of Jesus, Messiah and Lord the Righteous One

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God judges, and does grade--heaven or hell--and expects humans to have evaluate human outcomes regarding worldly consequences.

"A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another;
as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples,
if ye have love one to another" (Jn. 13:34,35 AV

[Elsie]

You better check with God on that one.

I'm a Prot. GOD does not speak to us.

He does, however; speak to Catholics; through the One True Church, and through 'Mary'.

What; exactly; do you think would tell me if He would?

[Elsie]

Parsing all of the red herrings is wearying.