Posted on 02/17/2017 7:01:56 AM PST by metmom
At one time, I had a dicussion with Lawrence Schiffman, an expert on the Dead Sea scrolls, and his view was that "older" in manuscripts was not necessarily better. Usually it meant that they lasted simply because they were so corrupt that no one used them, but they hesitated on throwing them away m so just laid them aside.
And for sure, Tischendorf "rescued" the Sinaitic manuscript from the burn barrel at St. Catherine's monastery, where it was thought to be worthless. That became a central prop not only by W&H, but John N. Darby preferred it in making his own translation, that has some of the same errors as the NIV.
Fallible and Uninspired much?
Isa 14:4-23
The Doom of the King of Babylon. ( B.C. 739.)
4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased! 5 The Lord hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers. 6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth. 7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing. 8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us. 9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. 10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us? 11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? 18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. 19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. 20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned. 21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities. 22 For I will rise up against them, saith the Lord of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the Lord. 23 I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the Lord of hosts.
(from Matthew Henry’s Commentary on the Whole Bible, PC Study Bible Formatted Electronic Database Copyright © 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All Rights reserved.)
Who was the King of Babylon again?
That parish may have historically (quite a long tome ago) been Missouri Synod, but the pastor had never, ever been!!! Pure ELCA—and Yale Divinity School, too!!!!
OT:1966
OT:1966
ll@yh@ heylel (hay-lale'); from OT:1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning-star:KJV
- lucifer (the king of Babylon).
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
Got to go now.
Missouri Synod isn’t necessarily Missouri Synod anymore.
They were a lot more LCMS when the LCMS’ network of schools was flourishing.
It was the teachers whose doctrinal instruction taught those under their stewardship to test EVERYTHING against the Word.
I think they are all misleading to one extent or another. I once talked to a woman studying to be an “expert” on the original translations and asked her which was the best version. She said the only way to really understand what is in the bible is to know the original languages in which it is written.
Fortunately, I depend on prayer and my relationship with Him more than what is written in the Bible. The bible just helps.
“And which of the Hebrew and Greek textforms are you referring to?”
It doesn’t matter. They are different but it doesn’t mean one of them is right and the other is wrong. They are not vastly different anyway.
http://cuneiform.org/words.htm Isa 14:12-13 How you have fallen from heaven,O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth,you who once laid low the nations!
NIV Isa 14:12-13 12 13
KJV
Who built the tower of Babel?
OT:1966 OT:1966 KJV
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
Ne Bugh na da Tzar!
I’m not much concerned about the new age movement or universalism being mistaken for Christianity.
Legalistic churches are addressed in the letter to Ephesus in Rev 2. The good news is that that truly are striving to do things right. The down side is that they are the only church threatened with loss of their candlestick due to their lack of love.
Hyper-Grace: the truth is that grace can legitimately be pushed right up to the borders of hyper-grace. We really are forgiven. Everything, including my Christian walk, truly is based on grace, because it’s grace from first to last. But Paul warns us we be saying, “Hey let’s go on sinning, because we have a ‘get out of jail free card’ called grace.
Prosperity gospel is so silly that I’m surprised people are fooled by it. At root, it’s that old love of money. You cannot serve both God and mammon. Those pursuing this end will shortly discover it’s a dead end. They’re not getting prosperous, others are off of them.
The emerging church is just another heretical teaching. The scripture keeps us in line, and beyond that the history of the church is an additional check.
Seriously, though, who wants a fake savior and a fake assembly? Refer to prosperity gospel preachers above.
Seems to be pretty popular with the technocratic Dominionist crowd.
Rom 1:25-26
25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator — who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over...
NIV
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg-jvHynP9Y
I find it fascinating that it is “shining one”, yet one makes it a pronoun (Lucifer), while the other adds the quality “morning” and “star”, even though the following words already point out it is a son of the dawn.
So, it’s not Venus? :-)
Like I said, there is alot out there including the Magdalene papyrus and much more.
>>“shining one”
A real Dinger!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dingir
I get the impression that’s how Nebuchadnezzar and his cohorts tried to portray him - before the Actual Creator of the Universe scratched that idea off the tablet.
The concept of the man-God (Fraud) repeats throughout history. Pharaohs, Czars, Caesars, Kings...
The cool thing is the message of hope that’s manifested when we consider the reconciliation of Nebuchadnezzar.
The cool thing is the message of hope that’s manifested when we consider the reconciliation of Nebuchadnezzar.
This^
I have found the English Standard Version to be pretty good and where there’s question about the original text, they add a footnote and give the alternate.
It’s very readable but not written at a People Magazine level.
Stay away from the NIV
- The above is a cross-post from an entirely unrelated topic, not allowed on FR.
- The sense in your construction above seems to be that it is meant a personalized attack, and that also is not permitted.
What are you going to do about this?
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