God Is Three

Grace to You.org ^ | 1997 | John MacArthur, Grace Community Church

[metmom]

“The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all” (2 Corinthians 13:14).

Though there is only one God, He exists in three Persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

God is one, but He exists in three distinct Persons. We call this the Trinity, a contraction of “tri-unity,” meaning “three in one.” The word Trinity doesn’t appear in the Bible, but God’s existence as three Persons in one God is clear from Scripture.

Old Testament evidence of God’s plurality can be found in the very first verse: “In the beginning God . . .” (Gen. 1:1). The Hebrew word used for God is Elohim, which is a plural noun. Isaiah 42:1 speaks of the Messiah: “Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen one in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations.” The Messiah says in Isaiah 48:16, “The Lord God has sent Me, and His Spirit.”

The New Testament is more explicit about God’s triune nature. After Jesus’ baptism, the Spirit of God descended upon Him as a dove, and the Father said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased” (Matt. 3:17). The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are together in the same scene.

Jesus says, “And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth” (John 14:16-17). Paul closes 2 Corinthians by saying, “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all” (13:14). Peter declares that believers are chosen “according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 1:2).

So God is one, but God is three. This is a profound mystery that no human illustration can adequately describe and no scientific explanation can prove. The Trinity is something we have to take on faith, because God has taught it in Scripture.

Suggestions for Prayer

Praise God that He is so far above our finite understanding, yet has chosen to reveal Himself to us.

For Further Study

Read John 14—16.

What does Jesus teach about His relationship with the Father and the Spirit? What do you learn here about the different functions or ministries of each member of the Trinity?

[DouglasKC]

He will ignore all the verses that have already been given to him in this thread that show Jesus as well as the Apostles taught about the Holy Spirit. Scripture that we also know "holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit", as Peter taught (II Peter 1:21) and as Paul affirmed: 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

Again I don't think you understand the point. There clearly IS a holy spirit. Nobody denies that. What's being discussed is whether or not it's a different person or entity in a triune Godhead. Scripture shows it is not.

[DouglasKC]

What you can't seem to understand is that the Holy Trinity WAS believed by the early Christians even though the term "Trinity" may not have been strictly used and not formalized in a creed form until the Nicean Council. Here are but a few passages from some of the pre-Nicean fathers:

As I've said multiple times the trinity doctrine is an evolved doctrine. It didn't spring full born into existence. There were starts and stops. There were debates and discussions. There were penalties and charges of heresy. It evolved over time. And that's fine IF you want to place your faith, confidence and belief in post biblical church fathers. Knock yourself out. But that doesn't make the trinity doctrine scriptural and nobody in bible times knew it or believed it.

Also some of those passages have little to do with the trinity theory but only mention a holy spirit in the same breath as the father and son. That really proves nothing *unless* we already have a presupposition that the Godhead is composed of three beings...which again scripture shows it is not.

[metmom]

That is a weak argument.

Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack.

Sure, it shows the tie between the Father and the Son, but that does not show the Holy Spirit is not God.

The question still remains then.

Who or what is the Holy Spirit?

If He’s not God, then you have a created being functioning as God.

The fact that the Holy Spirit exists is beyond dispute.

You are left trying to explain who he really is.

[MHGinTN]

Are you a Mormon?

[DouglasKC]

That is a weak argument. Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack. Sure, it shows the tie between the Father and the Son, but that does not show the Holy Spirit is not God.

I showed you multiple scriptural views of the Godhead and the holy spirit was not present as part of the Godhead. What is your explanation for those passages?

[DouglasKC]

Are you a Mormon?

Nope...are you?

[boatbums]

But that doesn't make the trinity doctrine scriptural and nobody in bible times knew it or believed it.

Except you have been shown multiple times now that assertion is NOT true. If "nobody in bible times knew it or believed it" then WHY are there many, many verses in Scripture that say the Holy Spirit DOES exist and we have writings from early Christians that affirm the same prior to the Council of Nicea? And we don't have a lot more writings that might have been written simply because the material they may have written on deteriorated after all this time.

Also some of those passages have little to do with the trinity theory but only mention a holy spirit in the same breath as the father and son. That really proves nothing *unless* we already have a presupposition that the Godhead is composed of three beings...which again scripture shows it is not.

Except those passages speak about the Holy Spirit as a person (HE) apart from the Father and the Son, as proceeding FROM the Father and the Son, that does things and that things can be done TO Him. You ought to acknowledge that you have your OWN presuppositions prejudiced against the Holy Spirit as God - probably taught to you by some denomination - and you made up your mind regardless of what has been shown to you from Scripture that disproves it.

I respect your right believe what you want on this and I would never force anyone to accept my word on a topic. I hope that you try to look at this objectively and pour through Scripture seeking God's insight (the Holy Spirit, Scripture says, will lead us into ALL truth). God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

This site is a good start https://carm.org/trinity

[DouglasKC]

Except you have been shown multiple times now that assertion is NOT true. If "nobody in bible times knew it or believed it" then WHY are there many, many verses in Scripture that say the Holy Spirit DOES exist

Well again I'm NOT arguing that there's no such thing as a holy spirit. Of course there is.

Except those passages speak about the Holy Spirit as a person (HE) apart from the Father and the Son, as proceeding FROM the Father and the Son, that does things and that things can be done TO Him.

"He" in English. Study the greek term for "spirit".

You ought to acknowledge that you have your OWN presuppositions prejudiced against the Holy Spirit as God

I have no prejudice against the holy spirit at all. I reject a doctrine that took 300 plus years to formulate and instead believe what Jesus, Peter and Paul believed. They did NOT believe in a trinity. This is obvious. If they believed this it would be contained in their teachings. Yet it's not. The only thing that is affirmed is that the Godhead is father and son. What is your interpretation of John 1:1-2? Where is the holy spirit in that clear picture of the Godhead? And where is the holy spirit in the glimpes of God's throne in Revelation? Where is the throne for the holy spirit?

I respect your right believe what you want on this and I would never force anyone to accept my word on a topic. I hope that you try to look at this objectively and pour through Scripture seeking God's insight (the Holy Spirit, Scripture says, will lead us into ALL truth). God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

I would ask you to do the same. I've seen, weighed and evaluated both views and chose the scriptures over tradition. That's not meant as an insult but the trinity is clearly tradition based. Again nobody in the bible EVER taught the trinity. It evolved through tradition. The tradition is believed and then scripture is used to justify tradition. Throw out the tradition and what we're left with is what Jesus and the apostles believed.

[boatbums]

Show me a scripture that shows a description of the Godhead in heaven. Show me where there is an entity called "the holy spirit" in heaven reigning with the father and the Christ. On the throne. I'll show you (and have shown you in multiple passages) that the Godhead as pictured in the bible is "two".

Are you "moving the goalposts" now? Ok, here are some passages that prove the Holy Spirit reigns with the Father and the Son in heaven (though each believer is indwelt WITH the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption):

It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things. (I Peter 1:12)

The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life. (Revelation 22:17)

For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. (Romans 14:17)

But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. (Acts 7:55)

But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. (John 14:26)

God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it. Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said, “‘The Lord said to my Lord:     “Sit at my right hand. (Acts 2:32-34)

The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. (Luke 1:35)

Where can I go from your Spirit?     Where can I flee from your presence?  If I go up to the heavens, you are there;     if I make my bed in the depths, you are there. (Psalm 139:7,8)

[boatbums]

Scripture shows HE does and HE is!

[delchiante]

quote-I know you have to find patterns of three because your belief system...

My belief system says God is 1.

And He is Spirit. and that Spirit has been represented to our finite brains in the form of the Father and Son most certainly- we can understand those ‘roles’ and governmental order.

Problem is, for our finite brains, the Father is Spirit, not flesh like our dads.. And the Son is the Word made Flesh.. So He too, is Spirit (made flesh)

And it is hard to see Spirit, which we can’t ‘see’, be anything but 1.

But the Spirit, although 1, has also been represented ‘like a dove’ and like ‘tongues of fire’..two completely different ‘likenesses’- in the New Testament Scriptures.

Scripture says God is my Helper (Psalm 30:10)- And Jesus says the Holy Spirit is our Helper..

Logic could say My Helper= God...Holy Spirit=Helper. God=Holy Spirit.

The people who sees the Holy Spirit as equal to the Father (who is Spirit), and the Son (who is the Word made Flesh- and that Word is Spirit and Life-John 6:63), certainly have a reason to think that way.

It may just be doctrinal squabbles and distractions...

I know God is one. And has done all the work- The work of Creation. The work of Redemption and currently the work of Convicting the world of sin, righteousness and judgment.

Not by might,nor by power, but by ‘My Spirit’..Zechariah 4..

[DouglasKC]

t was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things. (I Peter 1:12)

That is not a picture of the holy spirit IN heaven. In context the full idea:

1Pe 1:11  searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 
1Pe 1:12  To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into. 

It's the spirit of christ, the holy spirit that God gives us as a gift. Notice how it's synonomous with Christ. It's not a different "person" in a Godhead but a portion of God's spirit that lives in us.

The rest of your scriptures mention the holy spirit but specify no membership in the Godhead. They're understood as what they are....the interaction of God with humans.

How would you explain the lack of the holy spirit co-existent and co-eternal here:

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 
Joh 1:2  He was in the beginning with God. 
Joh 1:3  All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 

This is a clear picture of the Godhead. The divinity and personhood of Christ and the father are clearly stated and expressed. Was it a colossal oversight of John NOT to mention the supposedly co-equal, co-eternal 3rd "person" in the Godhead? What is your explanation?

[amorphous]

Well said.

[MHGinTN]

Glad to hear you are not a Mormon. I am not a Mormon.

I see you keep using the term 'Holy Spirit'. Since ONLY GOD is Holy, are inferring there is a binary God and another god named 'Holy Spirit'? Think long and hard before you respond. The term 'Holy' should not be used for any but HE Who IS Holy. The term is misused often, referring to men of different denominations and all different religions. They are not Holy in the same meaning of Holy Spirit. So, is The Holy Spirit another god, or does the Holy Spirit issue from The One God? Think man, THINK!

[boatbums]

Some additional passages the Holy Spirit just reminded me of while I was taking a shower:o)...Jesus said:

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. (John 16:7-15)

The Holy Spirit glorifies Jesus and not Himself. Scripture says we can "grieve" the Holy Spirit with whom we are sealed until the day of redemption. We grieve Him, I believe, when we sin, when we ignore His power within us to walk in good works prepared for us and, even, when we deny Him or - as some sects do - overemphasize His role and place in the Godhead. The Nicean Creed was formulated in the fourth century, sure, but it really is undeniable that the truth of the threescore, triune nature of Almighty God is prevalent throughout Scripture - spoken of in Old Testament passages as well as the New Testament. The above passage from the Gospel of John is one of the main Scripture verses where the term about the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father and the Son comes from. It is an ancient Tradition (capital T) of the rule of the Christian faith as is the one, true God, the Deity of Jesus Christ, His virgin birth, His resurrection, His death on the cross for our justification and salvation by grace through faith. It would be a mistake to reject it just because its formal definition came later. What matters is if the doctrine can be proven BY Scripture and I believe it certainly can which is why I accept it.

[amorphous]

In Ref. to boatbums post:

“I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. (John 16:7-15)”

Ask her why the pronoun “he” isn’t capitalized, as it is when used to refer to Christ?

[boatbums]

That is not a picture of the holy spirit IN heaven.

That verse DID say the Holy Spirit was "sent FROM heaven", did it not? If He was sent from heaven, He must have been IN heaven. As for the Holy Spirit being part of creation, you can turn to the beginning as told in Genesis:

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. (Gen. 1:1,2)

You linked the United Church of God websites and I see that on one of the major doctrines of the historical Christian faith, your denomination is:

Nontrinitarian belief, i.e., that the Holy Spirit is the spirit/power of God and of Christ Jesus rather than a separate person in the Godhead. God 'the Father' and Jesus Christ are viewed as two distinct beings in the 'God family,' united in purpose only.

Would it be correct to say you don't believe that Jesus is the incarnation of Almighty God but a separate "god" from the Father? Because if so, we have far more disagreements than just the deity of the Holy Spirit.

[boatbums]

You could ask me, you know. :o) In some versions, the "he" is capitalized. For example, the NASB http://biblehub.com/context/john/16-7.htm:

But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. 8“And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; 9concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; 11and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.       12“I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13“But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14“He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 15“All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.

Are you also a member of the United Church of Christ?

[amorphous]

I didn't think you were speaking to me any longer. :)

And no, I'm not affiliated with that denomination. Are you?

---

The New American Standard Bible (NASB), also known as the New American Standard Version, is an English translation of the Bible. The New Testament was first published in 1963. The complete Bible was published in 1971.[1] The most recent edition of the NASB text was published in 1995. Copyright and trademark to the NASB text are owned by the Lockman Foundation.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_American_Standard_Bible

The Lockman Foundation was started in 1942 by F. Dewey Lockman (St. Jacob, Illinois 1898-1974) and his wife Minna Lockman. It is a nonprofit, interdenominational Christian ministry dedicated to the translation, publication, and distribution of the New American Standard Bible (NASB), Amplified Bible, and other Biblical resources. The Foundation was founded on December 3, 1942 with the donation by the Lockmans of a substantial part of their citrus acres in La Habra, California. The Lockmans and the original Board of Directors set forth a doctrinal statement which the Foundation strictly follows to this day. Following Dewey Lockman's death, Dr. Samuel H. Sutherland (1900-1994), President Emeritus of Biola University, became President of The Lockman Foundation, and the Foundation continued its work in foreign language translations. Based on the same principles of literal translation, work was begun on the Korean Standard Bible, the New Chinese Version (NCV), the New Hindi Bible (India), and La Biblia de las Américas (Spanish). After leading the Foundation through several projects, Dr. Sutherland retired in the spring of 1979, and Robert G. Lambeth began his current tenure as President. In the 1990s the Foundation produced the New American Standard Bible Update and a Spanish version Nueva Biblia Latinoamericana de Hoy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockman_Foundation

---

So back to the original question: Why wasn't the pronoun "he" capitalized in the first version you posted?

[boatbums]

Aww...why would I not speak to you? As for the “he” vs “He”, it was a KJV and the pronoun wasn’t capitalized. So what? The KJV also doesn’t capitalize the pronoun “he” even when speaking about Jesus, so there’s that. Here are other versions of John 16:7 where some do and some do not:

New International Version
But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

New Living Translation
But in fact, it is best for you that I go away, because if I don’t, the Advocate won’t come. If I do go away, then I will send him to you.

English Standard Version
Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.

Berean Study Bible
But I tell you the truth, it is for your benefit that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

Berean Literal Bible
But I tell you the truth, it is profitable for you that I should go away; for unless I go away the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

New American Standard Bible
“But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

King James Bible
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Nevertheless, I am telling you the truth. It is for your benefit that I go away, because if I don’t go away the Counselor will not come to you. If I go, I will send Him to you.

International Standard Version
However, I’m telling you the truth. It’s for your advantage that I’m going away, because if I don’t go away, the Helper won’t come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.

NET Bible
But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I am going away. For if I do not go away, the Advocate will not come to you, but if I go, I will send him to you.

New Heart English Bible
Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Counselor won’t come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“I tell you the truth: it is beneficial for you that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Redeemer of the accursed will not come to you, but if I depart I shall send him to you.”

GOD’S WORD® Translation
However, I am telling you the truth: It’s good for you that I’m going away. If I don’t go away, the helper won’t come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.

New American Standard 1977
“But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper shall not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

King James 2000 Bible
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

American King James Version
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send him to you.

American Standard Version
Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I go, I will send him unto you.

Douay-Rheims Bible
But I tell you the truth: it is expedient to you that I go: for if I go not, the Paraclete will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

Darby Bible Translation
But I say the truth to you, It is profitable for you that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I go I will send him to you.

English Revised Version
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I go, I will send him unto you.

Webster’s Bible Translation
Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: It is expedient for you that I depart; for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send him to you.

Weymouth New Testament
“Yet it is the truth that I am telling you—it is to your advantage that I go away. For unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

World English Bible
Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is to your advantage that I go away, for if I don’t go away, the Counselor won’t come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.

Young’s Literal Translation
‘But I tell you the truth; it is better for you that I go away, for if I may not go away, the Comforter will not come unto you, and if I go on, I will send Him unto you;