Posted on 02/04/2017 5:15:51 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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That’s right, its not Christianity, its the narrow path of Yeshua the Netzer. His followers are the Notzerim, not ‘christians.’
Christianity is the “other gospel” that the apostles warned us about. Its the “mystery of iniquity” that Paul warned about. Its the
“wresting” with the words of Paul that Peter warned about.
Its the broad path that leads to destruction.
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That should have been 2024 (if it were not for my fat finger)
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Jew means a follower of the Pharisees in the spiritual sense, and a descendant of the House of Judah in the ethnic sense.
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well, my finger aint fat (but unfortunately the rest of me is, ha!)
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>> “I’d say that any time you end up arguing that Jews are not really Jews, then you’re into the realm of cuckoo anti-Semitism.” <<
Absolutely!
Insanity too.
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>> “and if you be Christ’s, then are you the seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise.” <<
But the “promise” is the covenant with the House of Judah and the House of Israel (both being genetic Hebrew Israel) and those that sojourn with them.
That covenant is solely with those that Keep Torah, as Yeshua did, and as all of his disciples and apostles did, and as all of the early believers did (and still do).
If you reject Torah the promise is not for you.
The promise is to those upon whose hearts Torah is written as Jeremiah 31:31-34 plainly states.
(and Romans ch 2)
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>> “The Torah verses refer to Jews & Israel, same as 3300 years ago.” <<
Yes, but Israel includes all who keep Torah, not just genetic Israel, so it becomes a much larger body of believers, possibly billions today.
But those that call themselves Christian, yet reject Torah, are not a part thereof.
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Old Testament verses apply to all three! Of both the "bible scholars" mentioned, only Paul Copan, professor of philosophy at Palm Beach gets it somewhat right in these first two sentences, but not completely.:
"When we understand who the people of God are in the New Testament, it does become clear that God's purposes for Israel for ethnic Jews are intermingled with his purposes for the Gentiles as well," Copan told CP in a mid-January phone interview.
"And so that in the fulfillment of the gospel [regarding] the Gentiles, it's the promise of Abraham that comes to fruition through whom all the nations of the earth will be blessed," he said.
After this, I totally disagree with everything else. :)
When the time of the Gentiles is finished, those in Christ, both living and dead, will be removed from the scene (John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am). Those remaining will finish out the tribulation and be sanctified.
The Kingdom of God will be established on the planet, under the direction of the Messiah for a thousand years. After this millennium period, a final battle with the forces of evil, a day of judgment for everyone else living and dead who were not in Christ, and a new heaven and earth established for those judged to be righteous by the Son of the Living God, sitting on Great White Throne.
This is America and we can have whatever religious beliefs we want, but those kinds of crazed anti-Christian ravings must never have any influence on US foreign policy. The Trump movement is a reaction against the “Bible prophecy says we need to do X in the Middle East” school of conservatism.
Now that's an understatement! And likely happening sooner than most wish to think about, IMO.
Disputing the ethno-religious claims of the modern state of Israel doesn't make one an anti-Semite. The vast majority of modern Israelis are genetically eastern European -- they have no actual link to the Israelites of the OT (ironically, those people who retain the closest genetic link to the Israelites are almost all Muslims at this point). So when Israelis appeal to an ethno-religious heritage, it's somewhat fallacious because obviously they are Jewish people religiously, but not ethnically in Biblical terms.
So if their right to a state rests on such a claim of heritage (obviously in realistic geopolitical terms it doesn't, but that doesn't stop people from referring to it for one reason or another), the Israelis themselves are contracting their own Jewishness based on their own criterion. But I doubt anybody would suggest that Israelis are anti-Semitic. :)
Even in conservative circles, the looming accusation of antisemitism is freely used to "chill the rhetoric," usually not against actual antisemitism, but against criticism of any aspect or policy of the modern, secular, socialist state of Israel. A brief perusal of any discussion board, including FR, will reveal people who are quite openly anti-Catholic, anti-Protestant, etc., but nobody bats an eye, and why should they? Only the suggestion of antisemitism gives people the vapors. Is it because of the perception that Jewishness entails both ethnic and religious identity, even though it really doesn't? Is it because of the Holocaust being so comparatively recent, even though millions more non-Jews than Jews were killed as well? Jewishness has achieved something of a "sacred cow" status that no other group can equal. Jewish identity has almost become an industry for some people -- 99% of those people not being devout, practicing Jews.
I would also add that I'm not antisemitic. I have Jewish friends, Jewish neighbors, and Jewish Israelis in my extended family, all of whom I get along fine with. When I'm spending time with somebody whom I care about, I'm not sitting there thinking their religion or ethnicity. I just don't understand why conservatives have fallen victim to political correctness on this specific topic. Free citizens of the United States should be free to be support or oppose any religion, any nation outside of the US, for any reason, as long as they aren't hurting others (and hurt feelings don't count).
That would not give me any kind of joy. That would cause me to examine myself.
“Genetically, real Jews are non-existent.”
Either you answer that in the affirmative, AND PROVE IT, or you are full of crap.
Oh, by the way, G-d Himself said that the Jews will be an eternal people. Since He does not lie, you have an argument with Someone more important than me.
“Yes, but Israel includes all who keep Torah, not just genetic Israel, so it becomes a much larger body of believers, possibly billions today.
But those that call themselves Christian, yet reject Torah, are not a part thereof.”
In other words, according to your vast wisdom: Jews are not Jews unless they become Christians!
I'd suggest that's a conclusion you need to rethink.
The New Testament discerns a distinction between Christians and Jews.
It adds Christians to God's promise.
It does not claim that Jews are not really Jews.
Not buying it.
Interesting opposing views on the question by people who call themselves Christians...I wonder where do all these different views come from...
Who are the Jews??? Are there any real Jews??? That’s something we don’t have to worry or argue about...God knows...But since Romans 11 hasn’t been fulfilled yet, some of us can be sure there are Jews out there somewhere...
Blessings for those (nations) who support Israel??? Just look around...Look at those nations who support Israel as opposed to those who don’t...If we can’t see the nations who have been blessed, we’re blind...This will play out and be revealed at the judgment of nations (Matt 25)...
There were two promises made...One was a spiritual promise and the other was a physical promise having to do with the land God gave Israel...
The church (small c) is the spiritual bride of Jesus Christ...Israel was the bride of God...Israel will NOT be the bride of Christ...
When the church gets raptured out of her we will have spiritual bodies that will be able to travel just as Jesus travels; walk thru walls, walk on water, or under water...And while no one has ever known what the heavenly Jesus looks like, we will look like he does...
When Jesus comes back to sit and rule over the world as THE KING on a physical throne in physical Jerusalem for a physical thousand years, we Christians will reign and rule and judge just as Jesus does...But who will we reign over and judge???
Those who do not die in the Great Tribulation (and there will be many) will physically live on into the Millennial reign of Jesus...They will have physical bodies as opposed to the spiritual bodies of the church...They are not part of the church...The Old Testament speaks extensively on this period of time...This is the group that Christians will rule and reign over...
At the end of that thousand years the Great White Throne judgment will take place...There will be no Christians facing that judgment...
So yes, Israel is the land of the Jews and is the most important piece of real estate on the planet earth...And we’d better do our best to protect it...
I guess the difference between you and me is that I don’t give a flying sh!t what anyone here thinks of me.
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