Posted on 02/04/2017 5:15:51 PM PST by SeekAndFind
Do Old Testament verses regarding Israel apply today to the State of Israel, Jews around the world, or the Church?
Many Christians believe that God's words to Abraham in Genesis 12:3, where after He instructs him to leave his homeland He says "I will bless those who bless you, and curse those who curse you," as well as other verses regarding Israel, are still in effect today. Favorable foreign policy toward modern Israel, then, is seen as a doorway to blessings from God.
But for others a theological quandary exists as to just who and what constitutes "Israel" and what "blessing Israel" looks like. Such questions are rising in light of the Barack Obama administration facilitating a U.N. resolution against Israel on Dec. 23 and a new Donald Trump administration appearing to back away from its campaign promise to relocate the American embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.
Richard Land, president of Southern Evangelical Seminary, told The Christian Post in a Jan. 5 interview that he believes God made specific promises to the Jews as a people that he did not make to the Gentiles. Some of those promises include the land of Canaan "forever," his words to Abraham in Genesis 12:3, and that the Messiah will come from the lineage of Abraham.
"[Israel] is ethnic, the seed of Abraham. It is literally the seed of Abraham," Land said. "If you're Jewish, you are part of the promise."
"Does that involve the state of Israel? Not explicitly," he added. "It involves the Jews around the world, all of them."
Land is among those who, like the Christian Zionist scholars CP interviewed on Dec. 31, regards the regathering of millions of Jews to their historic homeland during the last half of the twentieth century and first part of the twentieth century as a fulfillment of biblical prophecy.
Paul Copan, professor of philosophy at Palm Beach Atlantic University, takes a different view.
"When we understand who the people of God are in the New Testament, it does become clear that God's purposes for Israel for ethnic Jews are intermingled with his purposes for the Gentiles as well," Copan told CP in a mid-January phone interview.
"And so that in the fulfillment of the gospel [regarding] the Gentiles, it's the promise of Abraham that comes to fruition through whom all the nations of the earth will be blessed," he said.
In Romans 2 Paul talks about who a true Israelite is, which is "one who has the Spirit of God, they have been circumcised of heart," he said. "We also read in Romans chapter 9 verse 6 that Paul says not all Israel are those who are descended from Israel."
"The modern state of Israel may be in a sense a residual blessing that comes but nothing in terms of theology from Scripture to talk about this being predicted," he said, adding that he does not believe the nation-state of Israel born in 1948 fulfilled biblical prophecy.
When judgement fell on Jerusalem in AD 70, Copan thinks that marked the "decisive end" of national Israel as the people of God.
As to whether or not a potential relocation of the American embassy constitutes a "blessing," Land offered that "we have to defer to the Jews to tell us what they think blesses them and what they think doesn't bless them. It is not for us to tell the Jews what blesses them and what doesn't bless them."
Are you aware of the vicious blasphemies against Jesus Christ and the Blessed Virgin Mary contained in the Talmud?
Do you believe that Americans' First Amendment rights may be justly eroded (and eventually proscribed) by such measures as the "Anti-Semitism Awareness Act"? Do you believe that the Constitutional rights of American citizens ought to be subjugated by false shrieks of "antisemitism" -- engineered by the cynical manipulations of a foreign entity and its congressional and media agents?
I think the first passage quoted by BlatherNaut in post #84 above, from Matthew, refers correctly to the war ending in 70 AD.
It tells us nothing about times since then.
The second passage, from John, makes a new promise which Jews are free to accept or reject without imperiling their Old Covenant.
Nonsense.
Nothing in the New Testament permanently revokes God's original promises & Covenant with Jews.
It merely adds to them commitments to non-Jewish followers of Christ.
There is the House of Israel and the House of Judah. This stuff is not that difficult to understand if you actually study the Word-—
I assume by "believing" here you mean believers in Christ, which means they are not really Jews.
Instead, I'm satisfied that God's original Covenant with Jews remains in effect, and that committed Jews really are Jews, regardless of what names some Christians may hurl at them.
I didn't, in fact it's quoted heavily in the New Testament. AKA, the "New Covenant."
I thought perhaps you were Jewish so I was going to ignore the post, but then you added this comment. As a Christian, the scriptures I quoted to you are quite binding and clear in their meaning.
Thanks for your post! When it comes down to it, Judaism—as it exists today with its Talmudism— and Christianity are non-compatible religions. Both make drastically different claims, and the claims of Judaism in particular are quite malevolent, despite all the haughtiness and pretend mysticism of their Rabbis.
Puerile mischaracterization of my posts. "When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser". ~ Socrates
Ditto Americanism vs. Zionism. American patriots are maliciously portrayed as anti-Semites, as are Constitutionalists who object to the First Amendment rights of American citizens being eroded in service to the interests of foreign entities. How tragically short-sighted. "Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech." ~ Benjamin Franklin
I’m willing to let Jim Robinson judge whether he wants the good reputation of FreeRepublic to be sullied with your antiIsrael and antiJewish campaign.
“Welcome to Free Republic!
Conservatives for God, Family, Country!”
I’m an American, a conservative, and most importantly, a Christian. Are you? Not coming across that way. America First, and no more American blood and treasure should be squandered on foreign interests. Our Founders warned against foreign entanglements. False accusations of anti-Semitism against America-loving patriots are frankly beyond the pale. For shame!
Your definition of “everlasting covenant” is horribly different from mine.
We differ on who the promise is to. You think it’s to infidel Jews who will burn in hell upon death. I think it’s to Jesus Christ, the Israel of God, and all Christians through Him, as declared by the scripture.
Almighty God Yehovah declared that his promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and their offspring would remain in force as long as there were sun, moon and stars. He declared that they would be wayward, rebellious and far away from Him until He brought them back to Himself. Your Bible is still very different from mine.
I take it you are Jewish and not a Christian, In which case, there can be no agreement between us anyway, and you will just have to stick with your Talmud and the dumb stuff therein. I recommend, however, that you read the prophecies of Jesus Christ objectively rather than taking the word of imbecile Rabbis who claim eating mud from around a public toilet can cure you of ailments.
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