Theologian: Shared Communion With Protestants Would be Blasphemy and Sacrilege

National Catholic Register ^ | January 2, 2017 | Edward Pentin

[BlessedBeGod]

...If the Church were to change its rules on shared Eucharistic Communion it would “go against Revelation and the Magisterium”, leading Christians to “commit blasphemy and sacrilege,” an Italian theologian has warned.

Drawing on the Church’s teaching based on Sacred Scripture and Tradition, Msgr. Nicola Bux, a former consulter to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, stressed that non-Catholic Christians must have undertaken baptism and confirmation in the Catholic Church, and repented of grave sin through sacramental confession, in order to be able to receive Jesus in the Eucharist.

Msgr. Bux was responding to the Register about concerns that elements of the current pontificate might be sympathetic of a form of “open Communion” proposed by the German Protestant theologian, Jürgen Moltmann.

The concerns have arisen primarily due to the Holy Father’s own comments on Holy Communion and Lutherans, his apparent support for some remarried divorcees to receive Holy Communion, and how others have used his frequently repeated maxim about the Eucharist: that it is “not a prize for the perfect, but a powerful medicine and nourishment for the weak.”

The debate specifically over intercommunion with Christian denominations follows recent remarks by Cardinal Walter Kasper who, in a Dec. 10 interview with Avvenire, said he hopes Pope Francis’ next declaration will open the way for intercommunion with other denominations “in special cases.”

The German theologian said shared Eucharistic communion is just a matter of time, and that the Pope’s recent participation in the Reformation commemoration in Lund has given “a new thrust” to the “ecumenical process.”

Pope Francis has often expressed his admiration for Cardinal Kasper’s theology whose thinking has significantly influenced…the priorities of this pontificate, particularly on the Eucharist.

For Moltmann, Holy Communion is “the Lord's supper, not something organized by a church or a denomination”...

[Springfield Reformer]

Did you not read past the Pharisee’s self-prayer to the authentic prayer of the tax collector? I recommend reading the story again. It appears you have missed some material evidence in the case at hand. My question stands. To whom did the tax collector confess?

Peace,

SR

[mrobisr]

“Without singling anyone out,”

But you did indeed single me out. I don’t know what you mean by the two verses you have posted they are apples and oranges.

Your James reference is referring to a lost person NOT a saved person.

Your 1 John reference simply refers to all have sinned and once we admit we are sinners and need a Savior He will forgive us thus we are saved.

Funny that and rc would use a verse that says Mary was a sinner also.

Just as Christ doesn’t need to go to the cross every time we sin His sacrifice was and is sufficient for all sin past, present, and future. He is still sitting at the right hand of God as our High Priest, His work is forever!

[MHGinTN]

Let's see if you understand the passages your using:

And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Did this woman ever sin again, in any way? So was Jesus referring to specific sin or a blanket command?

And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Which of your popes has Jesus breathed upon, which priests?

Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

Were these doing the confessing making confession to John for John to forgive them their sins and baptize them? ... Why did Jesus come and be baptized by John?

Who alone has the power to forgive sin? To HIM confession is made, and HE has PROMISED to cleanse from all unrighteousness by the sinless blood of Jesus already sprinkled upon the Mercy Seat, not magically fed to you in a wheat wafer. Do you believe GOD cleanses the sinner's soul/spirit? Who alone is Righteous, ONLY Him can you sin against. Oh, you can wrong someone, but you cannot sin against someone who is not Holy and Righteous. Learn that lesson, old man, and you might just awaken ... before it is too late.

[ebb tide]

My family wasn't too happy, that I dumped the Catholic Church, but they got over it. So did I.

That's not important. Do you think God got over it?

[BlueDragon]

What point of yours did the man make?

Rather the man had just asked;

To whom did the tax collector confess his sins?

What does question of whether God "absolved" the apparent sin of the Pharisee have to do with this, now?

Should not the other side of the issue, in regards to the tax collector be addressed first -- or at least not passed by, swept under the rug of forum slide comments, to then become forgotten?

What's the problem? Feeling a little worried are you, that you are as son of those who John the Baptist upbraided?

You just called Elsie the devil (more or less, but in Latin) doing so not without there being some degree of plausible deniability come ready-made built-in with the insult. The whole thing reeks of snake-den viper-y.

Whatever you do -- don't bite yourself! That kind of venom you may not be entirely immune towards.

[MHGinTN]

You remain clueless as to what sin is and against Whom you sin. You will have endless questions bubbled up in your mind so long as you maintain your willful, invincible ignorance. Your catholic mind is so twisted you are even unable to ask a properly framed question! Read your own insulting post to metmom, for therein is the substance of my response to you. You asked ‘how do you know God forgives what you confess to Him? The fool in you turns my post around to reject the message you so desperately need, that our forgiveness is absolutely guaranteed because it is the PROMISE OF GOD!

[Springfield Reformer]

The Sermon on the Mount is clear. If there is an offense between you and your brother, don’t bother showing up at Temple to act all religious until you’ve been reconciled to your brother. Confession can take place in all kinds of venues. We once had a preacher caught in sexual sin. He injured the entire local body of believers. Confession to all of us was appropriate. If I say a sharp word to my wife and realize later it was sin, I confess that to my wife. Both errors should be confessed to God. This is Christian confession.

BTW, confession to Jesus or Jesus issuing forgiveness is the same as confessing to God and needing God’s forgiveness. That dimension will be there for every offense, because every sin is at some level against God. Nothing precludes those same individuals from admitting they were wrong to the people they hurt. Nickodemus did as much, returning his unjust tax collection to the people he ripped off. Both-and. Not either-or.

Peace,

SR

[ebb tide]

Christ had not instituted the Sacrament of Confession at that time. He did it after His Resurrection.

[ebb tide]

BTW, confession to Jesus or Jesus issuing forgiveness is the same as confessing to God and needing God’s forgiveness.

No kidding? I thought Jesus was God.

[MHGinTN]

Not drinking (but that reminds me, I should intake more fluids while I'm fighting the flu).

You are exhibiting willful, invicible ignorance. But I'm still praying that GOD's Spirit will shatter your invincible blindness, so you have yet another chance to absorb Truth offered to you, albeit juxtaposed with the heresies of your religion, catholicim, which source of your so deep blindness.

[af_vet_1981]

But you did indeed single me out. I don’t know what you mean by the two verses you have posted they are apples and oranges.

No, that phrase was in reference to the post to which I responded.

Your James reference is referring to a lost person NOT a saved person.

James was writing of "any of you."

Your 1 John reference simply refers to all have sinned and once we admit we are sinners and need a Savior He will forgive us thus we are saved.

No, the Apostle wrote "we," including himself. He was writing of a something still continuing for himself.

Funny that and rc would use a verse that says Mary was a sinner also.

Blessed Mary is not in the verse.

Just as Christ doesn’t need to go to the cross every time we sin His sacrifice was and is sufficient for all sin past, present, and future. He is still sitting at the right hand of God as our High Priest, His work is forever!

That does not agree with what He said to the churches through the Spirit.

Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Revelation, Catholic chapter two, Protestant verses one to seven,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

[Springfield Reformer]

Christ had not instituted the Sacrament of Confession at that time. He did it after His Resurrection.

According to the writer of Hebrews, it was the Old Covenant that required priestly intermediaries, but under the New Covenant we are supposed to go boldly before the throne of grace. So any denominational speculation that some more restrictive approach was secretly insitututed during the unrecorded post-ressurection teaching is necessarily false, and must be rejected.

Peace,

SR

[Springfield Reformer]

Indeed, which is why I didn’t understand you raising the point. It does nothing to advance your argument. But hey, if you want throw in random bits we can actually agree on, nothing wrong with that. :)

Peace,

SR

[Springfield Reformer]

Oops, it wasn’t you. It was af_vet. Mixed up my debatists. Sorry. :D Still. Glad we can agree where we can.

Peace,

SR

[ebb tide]

So do you reject John, Chapter 20?

Yes or no.

[21] He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. [22] When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. [23] Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

Pax,

ET

[af_vet_1981]

The Sermon on the Mount is clear. If there is an offense between you and your brother, don’t bother showing up at Temple to act all religious until you’ve been reconciled to your brother. Confession can take place in all kinds of venues. We once had a preacher caught in sexual sin. He injured the entire local body of believers. Confession to all of us was appropriate. If I say a sharp word to my wife and realize later it was sin, I confess that to my wife. Both errors should be confessed to God. This is Christian confession.

There was an altar where a sin offering was made. One still had to offer the gift at the altar after doing recompense for one's wrong.

If he confessed to those wronged and some did not forgive him, were his sins forgiven, or retained ?

Does the wife have power to forgive sins ?

BTW, confession to Jesus or Jesus issuing forgiveness is the same as confessing to God and needing God’s forgiveness. That dimension will be there for every offense, because every sin is at some level against God. Nothing precludes those same individuals from admitting they were wrong to the people they hurt. Nickodemus did as much, returning his unjust tax collection to the people he ripped off. Both-and. Not either-or.

Yes, penance and recompense, bring forth fruits meet for repentance, are along the way of working out our salvation with fear and trembling.

[Springfield Reformer]

Do you reject the entire book of Hebrews?

(BTW, serious readers are laughing at both of us, I’m sure. I can take it if you can)

Peace,

SR

[ebb tide]

No. I reject nothing in the Bible.

But you haven’t answered my question regarding John: 20. Care to do so?

Pax,
ET

[Springfield Reformer]

A Christian is obligated to try to set things right. Sometimes the other party isn’t ready to do that. God is the one who ultimately removes the burden of impending punishment for sin. But as Paul says, for those in Christ, the divine punishment has already been set aside. Confession serves a larger purpose than judicial forgiveness. It’s about reconciliation, the body of Christ diving headlong into the love of Christ and experiencing a bit of heaven on Earth. Reducing it to a checklist you intend to use to evade judgment is rather more like the Pharisee’s self-prayer. Only a few tweaks and it could be about any of the rituals we’re debating here. And the point would be the same. A man can be full of himself and his compliance with all the rules, or he can empty himself of all pride and come to God begging for forgiveness. The story Jesus told lets us know which is more important to God.

Peace,

SR