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To: BipolarBob

What did Jesus say to the Good Thief on the Cross shortly before he died?

“Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”


4 posted on 11/28/2016 4:54:48 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Cicero
"To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”

Time is relative. It will certainly seem like "today" to the thief.

6 posted on 11/28/2016 5:30:35 PM PST by BipolarBob (Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam. See me for the lowest prices guaranteed!)
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To: Cicero

‘What did Jesus say to the Good Thief on the Cross shortly before he died?

“Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”’

Certainly, but is “paradise” the same as “heaven”? I think we can answer that if we know if Jesus went to heaven that day or not, can’t we?

“18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.” 1 Peter 3:18-22

It seems to me these verses say that Christ descended into “sheol”, hell, or “the grave” that day, rather than ascended into heaven.

Also:

“8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)” Ephesians 4:8-10

Note the order here, Christ descended “into the lower parts” of the earth before he ascended. Of course, the Bible also tells us that Christ’s ascent to heaven didn’t happen until 40 days after the resurrection:

“9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.” Acts 1:9-11

So, if Christ did not go to heaven “that day”, but descended to somewhere else, it seems logical that “paradise” cannot be heaven, but must be a different place entirely. In fact, the Jewish tradition of the time held “paradise” to be a separate section of “hell” from the one where those who were condemned awaited their judgement. The New Testament seems to reflect his in the depiction of “Abraham’s bosom” in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man:

“22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.” Luke 16:22-26


9 posted on 11/28/2016 7:00:16 PM PST by Boogieman
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