Posted on 11/26/2016 4:12:21 PM PST by ebb tide
“Before we understand science, it is natural to believe that God created the universe. But now science offers a more convincing explanation. What I meant by 'we would know the mind of God' is, we would know everything that God would know, if there were a God, which there isn't. I'm an atheist.”
— Stephen Hawking —
Surprise! Surprise! God doesn’t matter!
What’s an atheist doing speaking at the Vatican?
I too have struggled with the concept that the universe was created from a thimble full of material. No one explains where the material comes from. I’ve spent many a night wondering what would be without a God or universe.
Sorry Stephen, but the more reasoned opinion, supported by many of your same intellectual status in the community, is that the more science discovers the more compelling the case becomes for a transcendent creator. Each new big scientific discovery merely reveals another previously unknown layer of infinite complexity and apparent design. There are only two possibilities (1) that the universe had a beginning or a "creation event" and if so it had to have a creator or a "first cause". or (2) the universe is eternal and has always existed. But that explanation gets into all sorts of trouble with the physical laws of thermodynamics (among others) and the logical imperative that everything we are ever destined to become we have already become if we've been here an eternal amount of time. (Infinite absolutes always play hell with the laws of logic.) Given the incredible fine tuning of almost every physical aspect of the universe just to make life possible (the anthropic principle), the clear choice is number 1 with an eternal transcendent, intelligent force (God, if you will) acting as the first cause - the Creator.
Hawking may be great in his own field of physics, but when it comes to philosophy, he’s a nincompoop.
St Thomas explained it. There must be something outside of the cause and effect sequence that started it all. That is God.
Things which can exist, or can not exist, cannot bring themselves into existence.
Unassailable.
Could the believer in science please publish the peer reviewed and results duplicated experiment that proves the non existence of God? I would like to review the methodology.
BTW, if the scientist, BELIEVES that God does not exist, and has no proof, then the scientist, is simply [GASP!!] following his own superstitions or faith.
>>I am unfamiliar with any evidence that the Big Bang is unraveling.<<
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Here’s a sample:
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/419984/big-bang-abandoned-in-new-model-of-the-universe/
Has anyone seen this "more convincing" explanation?
I don't anticipate being able to understand it, but I am willing to take an honest non-atheist's word for it; or perhaps several.
If the "more convincing explanation" passes the tests of real science, and nothing about the proof is subjective, let's just wait and see.
I am not a great fan of Stephen Hawking
I assume he doesn't care, but I also don't care whether he cares or not.
Sounds like he’s saying whether or not there’s a God depends on whether or not he’s an atheist.
Not the first example of logical incoherence from the man.
God will have the last laugh.
Universes happen.
Neither can Science (”Peace Be Upon It”) explain the astonishing fine tuning of the basic physical conditions which make life in the Universe possible. These are collectively called “the Anthropic Principle”. Science (PBUH) has to resort to Multiverse theory for its “explanation”.
e.g. “If there are billions & billions of universes out there, then one of them was bound to have all these physical constants at the correct values to permit life. And we (obviously) won the Lottery and ended up in that universe! See, “now science offers a more convincing explanation.”
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/designun.html
“Evidence shows that the constants of physics have been finely tuned to a degree not possible through human engineering. Five of the more finely tuned numbers are included in the table below. For comments about what scientists think about these numbers, see the page Quotes from Scientists Regarding Design of the Universe.
Fine Tuning of the Physical Constants of the Universe
Parameter —————————— Max. Deviation
Ratio of Electrons:Protons -—— 1:10 to the 37th power
Ratio of Electromagnetic Force:Gravity -—— 1:10 to the 40th power
Expansion Rate of Universe -—— 1:10 to the 55th power
Mass Density of Universe1 -—— 1:10 to the 59th power
Cosmological Constant -—— 1:10 to the 120th power
These numbers represent the maximum deviation from the accepted values, that would either prevent the universe from existing now, not having matter, or be unsuitable for any form of life.
The degree of fine-tuning is difficult to imagine. Dr. Hugh Ross gives an example of the least fine-tuned of the above four examples in his book, The Creator and the Cosmos, which is reproduced here:
One part in 10 to the 37th power is such an incredibly sensitive balance that it is hard to visualize. The following analogy might help:
Cover the entire North American continent in dimes all the way up to the moon, a height of about 239,000 miles (In comparison, the money to pay for the U.S. federal government debt would cover one square mile less than two feet deep with dimes.). Next, pile dimes from here to the moon on a billion other continents the same size as North America. Paint one dime red and mix it into the billions of piles of dimes. Blindfold a friend and ask him to pick out one dime. The odds that he will pick the red dime are one in 10 to the 37th power.”
“...now science offers a more convincing explanation.” Stephen Hawking
Riiiiiight!
Rationally, and LOGICALLY, there can’t be any atheists.
To be an atheist, ONE HAS TO KNOW, without a shadow of a doubt, that there REALLY isn’t any God. So, how would an atheist KNOW FOR SURE that there isn’t any God.
So, since no atheist can know with 100% certainty that there is no God, then, LOGICALLY, there can’t be atheism. We can have agnostics, since they are hedging their bets, but they too do not know, and not knowing is uncertainty, and uncertainty is what Agnosticism is about. An atheist would have to know with certainty that there is no God, but there isn’t a single person in the world, now or in the past, who could have had that kind of certainty of NO GOD. Thus, Atheism is illogical. Hawking was/is illogical on the issue of religion and of God.
Extend your argument to theists and what you’re saying is that rationally and logically there can’t be any believers.
Did aliens create and maintain the universe?
So some atheists might believe in a creator after all.
“for the believers in God, they don’t make the argument that they know for certain that there is a God; for the “theists”, it’s about “faith”, and faith is never 100% a certainty.”
So you’d categorise most believers as being less than 100% sure that God exists? That wouldn’t be my experience and sounds like you’re saying most believers are agnostic to some degree or other.
An understanding of what can be known and what we accept as known is important here, it seems.
Do you know other people exist—people other than yourselves? Then I ask you to please present evidence that what you perceive as other people are not merely hallucinations.
So the only correct answer to any question is ‘I don’t know’? Is everyone an agnostic these days?
“What’s an atheist doing speaking at the Vatican?”
++
Helping Francis with his theology?
The belief that all other people and things perceived are not hallucinations but are in fact real entities is called a properly basic belief.
The number of people who don’t hold this belief is infinitesimally small. That includes the number of people who say they don’t know if these perceptions are real.
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