Posted on 08/28/2016 6:29:15 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
Dear MDO, you've brought us back to, "God can do it that way if He wants to." :-)
Or do you really thing Satan would cure a dying man, because the man's family engaged the whole Body of Christ in intercessory prayer?
Satan will do whatever he can do to prevent you from knowing the Gospel of Grace and ensuring Hell is full. He is pure hatred.
And those who would be saved were not all those who said "Lord, Lord" and not hearers of His word only, but doers. Doers who persisted to the end.
You left out "doers of the Word."
If not, then all that stuff St. Paul said about "finishing the race," and "If anyone thinks he stand, let him take heed lest he fall" was kind of irrelevant blather. And Jesus had no real warning or admonition in mind for us when He said,
Finishing the race is about reward for those who already believed and were saved, warning against pride because it can lead to sin (falling into sin).
Jesus words are in regards to Jews in the end times, as God fulfills every last promise. In this instance, saved means saved from death and destruction.
"be diligent to present thyself approved to God -- a workman irreproachable, rightly dividing the word of the truth;" - I Timothy 2:15
The judgement of believers already occurred on the cross. There remains a judgement of their works.
Sentence structure indicates that the meaning is "doers of the Word,">/b> as here (grammatic analogy only):
"...not hearers of bagpipes only, but players. Players who persisted to the end."
It obviously refers to playing "bagpipes," not playing bongoes, baseball, or bingo.
You wrote: "Finishing the race is about reward for those who already believed and were saved, warning against pride because it can lead to sin (falling into sin)."
"Finishing the race is about reward for those who already believed and were saved, warning against pride because it can lead to sin (falling into sin)."
You've written of the saved being permanently assured salvation, but isn't "falling into sin" because of "pride" --- unless there is humble repentance ---incompatible with salvation? Didn't Satan fall because of pride?
What does Scripture say about the proud?
Christ died for all our sins - and all future and known when He died. For the believer, there is not a single sin in her life that remains unforgiven.
Unconfessed sin blocks her fellowship with the Father. It doesn't take away the guarantee of her salvation.
The Scriptures tell us:
"For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God."
For the believer, not only did Christ die, but she died with Him. When he paid the price, it applied to her.
She is now "sealed for the day of redemption." by the same Holy Spirit that placed her into the Body of Christ.
The Holy Spirit was the down payment to ensure that God is coming for her.
She has assurance of salvation from God Himself:
I John:5:11 "And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life."
13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
Further, she has no need to pretend to pray to angels or saints. She has direct access to God Himself and the guarantee that He both hears and answers her prayers.
14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.
She is held in the powerful hand of a Savior who accomplished salvation for those who entrusted themselves to HIM alone for eternal life.
John 6:37
“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38“For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39“This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40“For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
Christ did and always will do the will of the Father. We fail because we yet have the life of Adam enlivening our flesh. He never fails.
In closing, what can we say with God, "glory to God for His indescribable Gift!"
THere are over 50 calls to "repent" in the NT (LINK), and all of them are predicated on the necessity to repent of sin in order to be saved. This verse is typical, its theme repeated over and over::
Acts 3:19
Repent, therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be wiped away.
Clearly, if a person had been a believer but became prideful and did not repent, he could not be saved.
Another big theme, so often repeated, is God's rejection of the proud (LINK), which is typified in this verse:
James 4:6
But he bestows a greater grace; therefore, it says: “God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”
Or ponder this:
Proverbs 16:5 Every proud heart is an abomination to the Lord; be assured that none will go unpunished.
It doesn't sound to me like God forgives unrepented pride. To tell believers that He does, would be to lead them very much astray.
Your post is lumping two things together.
Repentance is "saying the same thing" about sin as God's view. To the unbeliever, turning away from his own way and to God is repentance.
You asked previously about a believer who sinned after being saved. In that case, God still desires repentance to restore fellowship. Until that happens and afterwards, the person remains saved.
Certainly God desires repentance. More than that: He requires it. But please clarify: you're saying that the prideful sinner "remains" saved regardless, without repentance?
I don’t know why Protestants are shocked to find that Catholics believe that salvation is found in Christ alone.
Scripture says that once a person comes to faith in Christ, even the sin of pride has already been paid for on the cross.
It is conduct unworthy of someone who has the life of Christ inside them as the new nature. It stems from the Adamic nature that remains until physical death.
Should the person repent to restore fellowship with the Father? Absolutely.
Does their failure to repent and restore fellowship with the Father cancel out what Christ did on the cross? Absolutely not.
Does that person lose their salvation for this or any other sin because they fail confess and repent? Absolutely not.
If a person has entrusted themselves to Christ, they have eternal life, according to God. They can be a wayward child, but a child they remain.
Their life after salvation on earth will be judged to determine the quality of their works. If wood, hay and stubble, it will be burned up. If gold, silver and precious metals, the fire will reveal it. "They themselves will be saved."
They may smell like smoke!
You could have answered my question with one word. Is an unrepentant prideful sinner saved because he was once "saved"? Yes, or no?
There is nothing in the Bible which says or implies a "Yes."
There's nothing there that says to believers, "Repent ---or don't. Whatever. You're saved, it really doesn't matter."
Oh, and this:
"Their life after salvation on earth will be judged to determine the quality of their works. If wood, hay and stubble, it will be burned up. If gold, silver and precious metals, the fire will reveal it. "They themselves will be saved."... They may smell like smoke.>"
Thanks be to God, that sure sounds like a state of purgation. Purgation. Know what I mean?
It connects to that "place" the Lord spoke of, where you DO get released... but only after the very last penny has been paid.
Oh boy
I don’t deny human response at all, but the Bible teaches that human response is the response to the gift of faith. No man on his on seeks God. Indeed Christ said no man can come to Him (no man has the ability in his natural state) unless the Father draws him. Regeneration precedes our human response. In other words, a genuine human response to the real Jesus of the Bible is evidence of what He has already done for and in a sinner.
Because of your history, structure, words, rituals, ceremonies, and creeds. Everything about Rome stands in opposition to the idea that Christ alone is the savior. Rome is the religion of addition. It always adds to Christ. If you believe salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, welcome to the anathema club.
Only believers.
You could have answered my question with one word. Is an unrepentant prideful sinner saved because he was once "saved"? Yes, or no?
If it were phrased correctly, not equating two different categories, I certainly could have. I had to deal with what you asked.
Here's the problem with what you are asking...
The believer who has entrusted himself to Christ and is now saved, did repent. He is now completely forgiven.
You asked about an "unrepentent prideful sinner" This is a non-believer. We were talking about believers. Therefore it took more words to state categorically that the believer, who is a new creation in Christ, can sin without losing his salvation. That includes pride.
There's nothing there that says to believers, "Repent ---or don't. Whatever. You're saved, it really doesn't matter."
No, believers are encouraged to repent. They are saved also. Thanks be to God, that sure sounds like a state of purgation. Purgation. Know what I mean?
Except it is the judging of the believers works at the last time. It is not purgatory, which doesn't exist in scripture.
It connects to that "place" the Lord spoke of, where you DO get released... but only after the very last penny has been paid.
It sounds similar, except it is not. It is not about paying anything. It is about the totality of a believer's life works being judged on quality. At that time, based on the judgement, he will either be rewarded or suffer loss. Both categories will be in heaven.
Best.
Assertion: No Scotsman eats porridge with sugar.
Objection: Angus MacPherson of Aberdeen eats porridge with sugar.
Response: Then Angus MacPherson is no True Scotsman.
This is illogical because it is not an argument at all: it is the unspoken assumption of a definition within the initial assertion itself. Or, better: it is a definition masquerading as an argument. Neither fact nor logic could refute this (it's "unfalsifiable") because the conclusion is made inevitable by custom-tailoring the definition in original assertion.
Assertion: No Christian can lose his salvation.See how it works? It's all sewn up by a tautology: a saved Christian cannot lose his salvation because if he does, he was not a saved Christian.
Objection: My pastor, a good Christian man who was saved when he was 12, turned atheist in his last years and died cursing God.
Response: Then your pastor was never saved and was no true Christian.
It's perfectly useless as an argument.
It's dangerous as well, because Christ warned us of the peril of unrepentance. To His friends--- His friends, mind you --- He said:
Luke 12:4-5
"I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body but after that can do no more. I shall show you whom to fear. Be afraid of the one who after killing has the power to cast into Gehenna; yes, I tell you, be afraid of that One."
Eternal Security? Assurance of Salvation --- no matter what?
Mark 3:28-30: "Truly I tell you, all sins and blasphemes will be forgiven for the sons of men. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin."I dip into the Matthew Henry Commentary, which was considered very solid by George Whitefield, John Wesley, Charles Spurgeon and other reformed preachers. After rightly assuring that the "trembling backslider" should not doubt that he will find forgiveness from Christ, he goes on to say, "This is far different from the determined enmity that is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall never be forgiven, because it will never be repented of."
No repentance = no forgiveness.
Not because of any shortfall in the mercy of Christ, who is always willing to grant it, and does grant it to all, because He wants them all to be saved ("He wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth" 1 Tim 2:4)--- but because of the final obstinacy of the unrepentant proud sinner, who refuses to receive it.
That's why Christ gave His FRIENDS so many warnings.
Because only those who persevere to the end, will be saved.
Well, of course. Who would dispute that?
A saved Christian can never lose his salvation. Ever.
It's perfectly useless as an argument.
I guess it would be, except it is not my argument.
It's dangerous as well, because Christ warned us of the peril of unrepentance.
"This is far different from the determined enmity that is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall never be forgiven, because it will never be repented of."
The only way you can blaspheme the Holy Spirit today is to refuse salvation in Christ.
Because only those who persevere to the end, will be saved.
Again, not written about the saved.
best
Good post.
Thank you. True. That's exactly what I'm talking about. "Because only those who persevere to the end, will be saved....Again, not written about the saved."
That makes no sense. How can they "persevere to the end" if they are "not" saved? Persevere in what? Their error? Their sin? Their perdition?
It is written, precisely, to the saved; otherwise they would not be told to persevere, that is, to carry on, to maintain their fidelity to Christ.
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