Posted on 08/20/2016 7:45:03 AM PDT by Salvation
Maybe you should ping him to the HTML sandbox. Some of us have rather ornate profile/home pages, like me, with pics of me loverly wife, the idol of me life, and her loverly bunch of coconuts.
Oh! Oh! Bro, I have to be a punctuation monitor here. Seriesly, that semicolon does NOT belong there! At least, not in the Av, DRB, or Darby versions, and certainly not in the Greek. And it is not the whole verse either, thus can be easily misinterpreted:
"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise" (Lk. 23:43 AV).
Being a little more particular, the translators were saying:
"And Jesus said unto him, . . ." (and here Luke's eyewitness qoutes Jesus) "Verily I say unto thee, . . ." (and here Jesus quotes Himself, a quote within a quote) " 'To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.' " (Jesus ends his sentence and thus his own quote; whereupon the eyewitness's quote of what Jesus said also ends.
What your semicolon does is to wrongly divide the Word to say:
"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee to day; . . ." (that sometime in the future, who knows when?) ". . . thou shalt be with me in paradise."
Oooops!
Yeah LC; R2z said piling on; What’s with the semi-colon; deal in your posts;?
X
The time appears to have arrived and it’s time to lay this thread to rest. Or, at least, give it a rest.
bb, would you do the honors of cutting of the lights and taking out the trash for us in our Southern Hemisphere branch?
Good night; God bless us every one!
Well; at LEAST I didn’t put “quotes” around it!
Semi-colon is what Hillary has.
She needs to empty her colostomy bag reqularly.
On to 1,000!
People with semi-colons are half a$$ed.
Not quite. What would be meant is that while the baptized infant would go to glory if he/she died immediately after baptism - due to that act, done with proper intention, effecting removal of Original Sin and regeneration (with the latter "infusing charity"=making one actually holy) - yet due to what the baptized ends up doing if he lives, then the holiness via the infused interior righteousness received at baptism must be regained, and salvation is merited by his practical obedience. And coming short in this in this life, and having sins lacking sufficient expiation, means such a one must endure the fiery torments of RC purgatory (EOs tend to have a different version).
Purgatory itself means "to make clean, to purify" (Lat., "purgare"), and one of the two purposes of purgatory, besides its fantasy of atoning for sin, is that one must be purified of character defects and its attachment to sin, to be with God, since no unclean thing will enter glory.
All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness to enter the joy of heaven. (CCC 1030). The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect
The Catholic Encyclopedia explains that St. Augustine "describes two conditions of men; "some there are who have departed this life, not so bad as to be deemed unworthy of mercy, nor so good as to be entitled to immediate happiness" etc.
And thus by the close of the fourth century was taught "a place of purgation..from which when purified they "were admitted unto the Holy Mount of the Lord". For " they were "not so good as to be entitled to eternal happiness". - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm
Likewise Catholic professor Peter Kreeft states,
"...we will go to Purgatory first, and then to Heaven after we are purged of all selfishness and bad habits and character faults." Peter Kreeft, Because God Is Real: Sixteen Questions, One Answer, p. 224
As do lay RCs who say such things as,
"ones who will go directly to heaven are the ones who have already shed every last trace of self-love left in their hearts...Their hearts are left with nothing but pure love for Christ." -http://stillcatholic.com/CATHPurg.htm
While aspects the theology of justification was not set firmly before Luther and Trent, the latter affirmed that that the instrumental cause of justification is the sacrament of baptism, and that no works which precede the grace of justification via baptism merit it, yet it proceeds to teach that one is justified by the good works which he performs through the grace of God, and truly merits the attainment of eternal life. (CANON XXXII).
Although the sinner is justified by the justice of Christ, inasmuch as the Redeemer has merited for him the grace of justification (causa meritoria), nevertheless he is formally justified and made holy by his own personal justice and holiness (causa formalis). (Catholic Encyclopedia> Sanctifying Grace)
Which can be summed up as salvation by grace thru merit.
Works do justify the believer as to being a believer as having true faith (Heb. 6:9) since works evidence faith (Ja. 2:18) and makes manifest that one is fit to be rewarded under grace, (Heb. 10:35) though these believers actually deserve Hell. Yet works of faith are not the actual cause of justification, as if one was actually practically perfect in character so as to be fit to be with the Lord, but both purification and justification is by faith which is counted for righteousness. (Eph. 2:8,9)
And since obedience that expresses faith shows that one is a true, saved believer, thus Scripture promises salvation to those who will obey, such as Acts 2:38 (repent, by baptized), but since it is actually the faith that is behind obedience that appropriates justification, being counted for righteousness, then souls such as the first Gentile converts were forgiven and regenerated before baptism, (Acts 10:43-47) with God "purifying their hearts by faith." (Acts 15:9)
And because contrite effectual faith justifies, Abraham's faith was counted for righteousness. (Gn. 15:6) not because he was born again at that time, and likewise the penitent publican as well as the contrite criminal were saved by contrite faith. (Lk. 18:10-14; 23:39-43) And in addition to teaching that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, all the church is told that they would be with the Lord when He returns. (1Thes. 4:17) That all such souls had attained to perfection of character, and deliverance of attachment to sin, is absurd. The flesh cannot be made subject to God, (Rm. 8:7) and merely suffering on the cross would not enable one to attain to perfection of character. Likewise an innocent infant does not even possess that character, which must be developed.
In defense, Caths will often invoke Matthew 5:48: "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect," and Revelation 22:27 that states that nothing unclean will enter into the Holy City, (Revelation 22:27) as if that meant that perfection of character was required. But Scripture clearly declares that even the immature Corinthians were presently "washed...sanctified and... justified," and that to be absent from the body meant to be present with the Lord, even though Paul confesses that he was not already perfect. (Phil. 1:23; 3:8ff)
The error of Catholicism here extends into excluding unbaptized infants from Heaven:
Pope Pius VI: "that place of the lower regions (which the faithful generally designate by the name of the limbo of children) in which the souls of those departing with the sole guilt of original sin are punished with the punishment of the condemned, exclusive of the punishment of fire" (Auctorem Fidei)
The question of where unbaptized infants go after death is one that has vexed the Church for centuries. Some of Her greatest Saints have disagreed on this issue: St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, for example, came to different conclusions. And every possible answer is fraught with problems. If we say that the unborn and unbaptized infants automatically go to Heaven, there’s a serious risk of presumption (or worse, thinking of abortion as assisting these poor souls). It also seems to undermine the Church’s teaching on the necessity of infant baptism. On the other hand, saying that these children are damned runs contrary to everything that we believe about the purpose of Hell – damning a child who is murdered in the womb (and who never had a free act for or against God, and never had the ability to believe in Him) appears to be the worst form of injustice. And the solution proposed by many theologians – that these children go to the Limbo of Infants – looks too cute by half, and isn’t apparently supported by the Scriptural evidence. - http://shamelesspopery.com/where-do-unbaptized-babies-go-when-they-die/
However, although we are poetically said to be shapen in iniquity and conceive in sin, (Psalms 51:5) which i believe refers to having a sinful nature, yet the infant is not personally culpable for sin, and souls are judged in damnation based on what they did, not their father Adam. And if possessing a incorrigible sinful nature excludes one from being with the Lord then death would free one from that. "For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Romans 6:7)
I try to make my quotations conform to the style sheet of today's peer-reviewed theological journals and doctoral theses. That way I can only be accused of being an old fuddy-duddy. Which I guess I am, give or take an apostrophe here or there.
She needs to empty her colostomy bag regularly
Ewwwww. That's disgusting, but then again, Hildebeast is pretty disgusting anyway.
Wow, I hope you copy-pasted that and didn’t have to retype it all!
“They teach, according to one theologian I have dialogued with, that during the service, the elements remain bread and wine but also contain the Body and Blood of Christ, Soul and Divinity. This theologian also told me that if there is any Sacrament left over after Communion, it must either be consumed by the minister (whom he called a priest) or else reserved in a place of dignity and safe from defilement (for example, Sacrament taken to the sick later). The ELCA is trying to encourage Communion at every service. The LCMS may already HAVE Communion at every service.”
That is an accurate representation of the Lutheran understanding, though there is no uniformity in frequency of communion. We just don’t make any philosophical arguments on accidents and such. The bread is Jesus’ body; the wine is Jesus’ blood. We don’t understand it any more than you. We reject the complete transformation because Paul referred to it as bread and Jesus called it the fruit of the vine.
But never will we say it’s JUST bread - if it were, 1 Cor. 10:16 wouldn’t make any sense. (We pity the churches who reject Jesus’ promises of grace in communion - but still say if you can receive it unworthily. What an awful thing - it’s just a symbol and doesn’t actually do anything, but woe to you if you mess it up!)
Ping
By the way, you may consider yourself challenged to a Limerick war. Right here bro, post 60 😆
Now Elsie (the guy that they LOVE to hate)
Tossed bread on the water (the bait)
They looked at it wary,
Though tempted; ‘twas scary;
“If taken; we’d wind up on a plate!”
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