Judging non-Catholics

OSV.com ^ | 08-17-16 | Msgr. Charles Pope

[ealgeone]

I’ve read staples’ apologetics on various topics. He needs to go back to school.

[metmom]

I did.

And what difference does official church teaching mean if the local parishes teach something different?

And besides, that’s just a common cop out to excuse what the church did that was wrong. It’s also a tacit admission that the church did indeed do it, but in an effort defend the church at all costs and never admit to or acknowledge that the Catholic church can be wrong in any area, Catholics blame shift and fall back on that.,

Talk is cheap and *official* anything doesn’t amount to a hill of beans when the practice shows what the church really upholds.

[metmom]

So what if the Roman church dug up the names of men they claim to trace back to Peter?

It still doesn't prove the Catholic church is the church to which Jesus was referring.

And the rock is not Peter but Jesus Himself, and Scripture tells us that.

Peter – rock

Matthew 16:18 - http://bible.cc/matthew/16-18.htm

Jesus said that Peter was *petros*(masculine) and that on this *petra*(feminine) He would build His church.

Greek: 4074 Pétros (a masculine noun) – properly, a stone (pebble), such as a small rock found along a pathway. 4074 /Pétros (”small stone”) then stands in contrast to 4073 /pétra (”cliff, boulder,” Abbott-Smith).

“4074 (Pétros) is an isolated rock and 4073 (pétra) is a cliff” (TDNT, 3, 100). “4074 (Pétros) always means a stone . . . such as a man may throw, . . . versus 4073 (pétra), a projecting rock, cliff” (S. Zodhiates, Dict).

4073 pétra (a feminine noun) – “a mass of connected rock,” which is distinct from 4074 (Pétros) which is “a detached stone or boulder” (A-S). 4073 (pétra) is a “solid or native rock, rising up through the earth” (Souter) – a huge mass of rock (a boulder), such as a projecting cliff.

4073 (petra) is “a projecting rock, cliff (feminine noun) . . . 4074 (petros, the masculine form) however is a stone . . . such as a man might throw” (S. Zodhiates, Dict).

Paul tells us here who the rock- petra- iis.

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock (petra) that followed them, and the Rock (petra) was Christ.

And Peter himself tells us here.

1 Peter 2:1-8 So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation— if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good.

As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture: “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”

So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe,

“The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,”

and

“A stone of stumbling, and a rock (petra) of offense.”

They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.

All occurrences of *petra* in the Greek.

http://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_4073.htm

[ADSUM]

Elsie stated: “Then it appears that ‘Mary’ lied to you guys! “

I am sure that you will tell Jesus on Judgement Day.

[metmom]

History proves that an error. The Roman Church determined the Canon very early on and began interpreting them also. All non-Catholic Christian denominations and many non Roman Catholic religions split off from that early Church, which still survives.

History does not prove the Roman church to be directly traced to Peter. Until 1053 or so, there was one *catholic* church.

The Roman church insisted on taking the primacy and the Eastern church refused to recognize the claim of the then pope to be head of all the churches.

East–West Schism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East%E2%80%93West_Schism

Romans claim to being the OTC, falls very flat.

[metmom]

The rcc determined their canon at Trent did it not?

Which was changed from before, from the church that never changes.

[metmom]

Even when I was a Catholic I thought it strange to make “prayers” a penance.

Interesting how they made prayer a punishment for sin.

[metmom]

I don’t see it in the book of the Acts of the Apostles.

There is no record and there are no instructions in Scripture that describe the mass as it stands today.

[metmom]

Nonsense..

This is a Prot bashing thread if ever there was one and not the first you’ve ever posted by any means.

Stop with the hypocrisy already.

Don’t dish it out if you can’t take it.

[metmom]

You noted *NOTHING* as Offical Catholic Teaching on Mary and/or her role as an Inspiration in our spiritual life.

There's this.

From the Catechism of the Catholic church....

http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a9p6.htm

969 “This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation .... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.”510

Names of God from the Bible. Compare them to the names given to Mary in the above prayer.

Jesus

Hope (our) - 1 Timothy 1:1

Counselor - Isaiah 9:6

Advocate - 1 John 2:1

Mediator - 1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 9:15, Hebrews 12:24

Holy Spirit

Comforter - John 14:26

Helper – John 14:16

This is worship of Mary if ever there was.....Attributing to her the attributes of God is idolatry.

It says right that that Mary has a saving office and brings the gift of eternal salvation.

Since the Catholic church likes it's charges of blasphemy and heresy to much, that's one right there for you.

[ealgeone]

Elias saw Mary in the cloud......? ok.

Elias, being a prophet, decided to commemorate this event and he founded a community of hermits on Mount Carmel to prepare for the coming of the Savior and His Mother, the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Too which the OT says absolutely nothing about.

I also notice in the link the typical depiction of Mary and Jesus.

Mary is depicted as the grown up and Jesus a little boy.

This is typical of catholicism. Exalt Mary, minimize Jesus.

[metmom]

OUCH!

[metmom]

That doesn’t say belonging to the Catholic church is required for salvation.

So Jesus’ death on the cross is not enough.

You have to eat Him, too?

[metmom]

FW is correct. Not a guilty conscience.

The Catholic church needs to follow the instructions in the very Scripture that it claims it wrote.

1 Corinthians 5:1-13 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.

For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Let us therefore celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

[bramps]

Please. The beating is for those WHO KNOW THE FATHER’S WILL and do not join the church. Only God can see into hearts and know who KNEW and refused to join. And only those get the beating.
..........................................................

I can read. The issue is that he is referring specifically to the Catholic church, which I, for example, am not part of. Meaning that I am headed for a beating, even though I am a Christian.

Consequently I think it is fair for me to judge this man a fool.

[ealgeone]

Colossians 2:13-14 confirms all sins have been wiped away as you note.

[Resettozero]

Most of us are not perfect at death and nothing unclean enters heaven. Thus purgatorial cleansing.

Much filthy lucre has been extracted from uncertain Catholics by their soul-masters because of belief in this un-Scriptural church teaching.

Now, Paradise...that's another discussion not for this thread.

[ADSUM]

Metmom: The Catholic church needs to follow the instructions in the very Scripture that it claims it wrote.

So you will throw the first stone?

[ADSUM]

Metmom: You have to eat Him, too?

Those were the words of Jesus.

Many have rejected the words of Jesus and still try to claim that they have faith in Jesus.

That must be difficult for you.

[.45 Long Colt]

You are denying the explicit Word of God in favor of Rome, but at least in your case you deny it with your eyes open. Hope it works out for you.