Posted on 06/27/2016 7:09:10 PM PDT by ebb tide
Kleinjung: Too much beer … Holy Father, I wanted to ask you a question. Today you spoke of the gifts of the shared Churches, of the gifts shared by the Churches together. Seeing that you will go in I believe four months to Lund for the commemoration of the 500th anniversary of the reformation, I think perhaps this is also the right moment for us not only to remember the wounds on both sides but also to recognize the gifts of the reformation. Perhaps also – this is a heretical question – perhaps to annul or withdraw the excommunication of Martin Luther or of some sort of rehabilitation. Thank you.
Pope Francis: I think that the intentions of Martin Luther were not mistaken. He was a reformer. Perhaps some methods were not correct. But in that time, if we read the story of the Pastor, a German Lutheran who then converted when he saw reality – he became Catholic – in that time, the Church was not exactly a model to imitate. There was corruption in the Church, there was worldliness, attachment to money, to power…and this he protested. Then he was intelligent and took some steps forward justifying, and because he did this. And today Lutherans and Catholics, Protestants, all of us agree on the doctrine of justification. On this point, which is very important, he did not err. He made a medicine for the Church, but then this medicine consolidated into a state of things, into a state of a discipline, into a way of believing, into a way of doing, into a liturgical way and he wasn’t alone; there was Zwingli, there was Calvin, each one of them different, and behind them were who? Principals! We must put ourselves in the story of that time. It’s a story that’s not easy to understand, not easy. Then things went forward, and today the dialogue is very good. That document of justification I think is one of the richest ecumenical documents in the world, one in most agreement. But there are divisions, and these also depend on the Churches. In Buenos Aires there were two Lutheran churches, and one thought in one way and the other…even in the same Lutheran church there was no unity; but they respected each other, they loved each other, and the difference is perhaps what hurt all of us so badly and today we seek to take up the path of encountering each other after 500 years. I think that we have to pray together, pray. Prayer is important for this. Second, to work together for the poor, for the persecuted, for many people, for refugees, for the many who suffer; to work together and pray together and the theologians who study together try…but this is a long path, very long. One time jokingly I said: I know when full unity will happen. – “when?” – “the day after the Son of Man comes,” because we don’t know…the Holy Spirit will give the grace, but in the meantime, praying, loving each other and working together. Above all for the poor, for the people who suffer and for peace and many things…against the exploitation of people and many things in which they are jointly working together.
We don’t even need to get into the theology. All you need to know is that Luther says X about Justification, and the Catholic Church says Y. If you believe Luther’s position, you are Lutheran, not Catholic. This is not some arcane doctrine; it’s the central tenant of the Lutheran confession.
The Catholic teaching on Justification is HERE. A bunch of stuff Luther said is HERE.
The pope is Lutheran.
The pope cannot be Lutheran.
Red hats, now is the proper time.
As a Lutheran, I almost wish the Holy Father were a Lutheran, because then he would not be spewing so much heterodox drivel, along with too many of his bishops.
A lutheran wouldn’t want to be pope.
I think this Pope is an atheist in Papal Robes.
It is weird. He sounds Evangelical. How many churches are there? One, FReinds.
The Lutherans are welcome to him (if they can bear to accept someone as devoid of integrity as he has revealed himself to be).
“A Lutheran Cannot be Pope.”
But a Pope named Francis can be a declared Muslim given enough time.
The pope is talking about the October, 1998 agreed statement on justification between the Lutheran World Federation
and the Catholic Church. It doesn’t surprise me that there are people too dumb or mendacious to simply tell that truth.
If a marxist homosexual can be Pope then why can’t a Lutheran?
God Lord, I hope not. We broke from the Pope, never to return for numerous reasons. Highly ranked among those reasons is the notion that the Pope is useless. That has been so clearly demonstrated by ravings of the lunatic currently in that position.
Would this mean they’d start having pot luck dinners at the Vatican?
[Would this mean they’d start having pot luck dinners at the Vatican?]
Pot lucks come with the Baptists.
Right now I’d volunteer to be Pope.
That document, sponsored by Cardinal Ratzinger, is outright heresy. Only dumb people believe that it isn’t.
Why not? You’ve got an atheist now...
The Red Pope does the bidding of the elites.
Correct. Therefore, by divine law, he is not pope. Catholic teaching that supports the OP:
“Heretics and schismatics are barred from the Supreme Pontificate by the Divine Law itself, because, although by divine law they are not considered incapable of participating in a certain type of ecclesiastical jurisdiction, nevertheless, they must certainly be regarded as excluded from occupying the throne of the Apostolic See, which is the infallible teacher of the truth of the faith and the center of ecclesiastical unity” (Marato, Institutiones luris Canonici [1921] 2:184).
“Appointment to the Office of the Primacy. 1. What is required by divine law for this appointment... Also required for validity is that the one elected be a member of the Church; hence, heretics and apostates (at least public ones) are excluded....” "If indeed such a situation would happen, he [the Roman Pontiff] would, by divine law, fall from office without any sentence, indeed, without even a declaratory one. He who openly professes heresy places himself outside the Church, and it is not likely that Christ would preserve the Primacy of His Church in one so unworthy. Wherefore, if the Roman Pontiff were to profess heresy, before any condemnatory sentence (which would be impossible anyway) he would lose his authority” (Coronata, Institutiones Iuris Canonici [1950] 1:312,316).
Interesting, I thought Divine Law was based on and from Holy scripture...
Not on man’s or church traditions....
I learn about from these Catholic threads...
Given non-Catholics don’t believe in popes, why would this be surprising to you?
And just to add: quite honestly, for me it’s just common sense that the leader of the “Catholic” Church needs to be .... Catholic. Otherwise why not elect the Dalai Lama and claim he can still be the pope!?
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