Posted on 06/26/2016 5:38:07 AM PDT by marshmallow
And, like ALL automatic penalties in Canon Law, absolutely meaningless and without effect.
Who are you kidding?
Contrary to the Apostate Vatican-2 sect, the dicta of the Roman Catholic Church mean EXACTLY what they say.
The See is vacant, and the whole damn sorry heretical lot of them are not Catholic, possess no Office, and await eternal damnation if they do not immediately repent and renounce ALL errors.
No a heretic I think.
AUTOMATIC penalties are meaningless.
I can prove it to you, if you are willing to spend the money on a ticket to Rome.
Once you get there, walk up to Bergoglio and snatch the beanie off his head. Then, proclaim that he is not Pope.
Let me know what happens after that.
I’m not sure I am following you two here.
There are a number of automatic penalties in canon law, and there are Popes who have issued decrees imposing automatic penalties.
I am pointing out the simple fact that these are MEANINGLESS. The very fact that the penalties are “automatic” means that that the so-called penalty is imposed by—NOBODY.
The same is true in the case of a heretic who is “automatically” not Pope.
Go to Rome. Snatch Bergoglio’s beanie off his head, and proclaim to the crowd that he is not Pope.
SEE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT.
Except that is not true. A manifest heretic ceases to be pope ipso facto not because of a penalty incurred via canon law, but because of the penalty incurred via divine law.
We are not governed by divine law.
You remind me of the exchange between Will Roper and Thomas More:
Roper: Arrest that man! He’s bad!
More: There’s no law against that.
Roper: Yes, there is. God’s law.
More: Then let God arrest him.
And He has.
How so?
I think Thomas More made that clear.
It is of supreme importance that Bergoglio spews heresy. It is vitally important that Catholics who recognize his heresy for what it is expose it for other Catholics. Bergoglio should be mocked and shamed, that as many Catholics as possible should ignore his droolings. If, by the time he dies, Bergoglio is a laughingstock to virtually all Catholics, nothing could be better for the Church.
It may be true that Bergoglio is not “really” Pope. Just don’t invest much in the goal of actual removal from office. The people who made him Pope are too corrupt to listen. The people who COULD remove him are too cowardly. In More’s words, “Let God arrest him.”
Wow, you’ve just written a great opening scene for a movie.
Besides, using Thomas More's comments in this context was not even applicable here. He was speaking of English Law....not even Church Law.
Regardless, God has already "arrested" Francis according to the teaching of the Catholic Church re: manifest heretic "popes". Here is just a couple:
“Heretics and schismatics are barred from the Supreme Pontificate by the Divine Law itself, because, although by divine law they are not considered incapable of participating in a certain type of ecclesiastical jurisdiction, nevertheless, they must certainly be regarded as excluded from occupying the throne of the Apostolic See, which is the infallible teacher of the truth of the faith and the center of ecclesiastical unity” (Marato, Institutiones luris Canonici [1921] 2:184).
“Appointment to the Office of the Primacy. 1. What is required by divine lawfor this appointment... Also required for validity is that the one elected be a member of the Church; hence, heretics and apostates (at least public ones) are excluded....” “If indeed such a situation would happen, he [the Roman Pontiff] would, by divine law, fall from office without any sentence, indeed, without even a declaratory one. He who openly professes heresy places himself outside the Church, and it is not likely that Christ would preserve the Primacy of His Church in one so unworthy. Wherefore, if the Roman Pontiff were to profess heresy, before any condemnatory sentence (which would be impossible anyway) he would lose his authority” (Coronata, Institutiones Iuris Canonici [1950] 1:312,316).
What More is pointing out is that God doesn’t arrest people, and in that sense we are not governed by divine law.
Actually God DOES arrest everybody—eventually. At death. Which, in the play, More points out to the judges at his trial. Eventually, More was canonized, and his judges are in Hell.
In the meantime, More’s head was cut off, and Bergoglio is “Pope.”
You don’t need to keep cutting-and-pasting material about the papacy, and who is “really” Pope or not Pope, blah blah blah. No intelligent person doubts that Bergoglio is a rotten Pope. Maybe he isn’t “really” Pope!
My point is that it makes absolutely no difference to you and me. We are not in a position to do anything about it. Bergoglio is going to die someday, and he will receive a Pope’s funeral.
There is nothing you or I can possibly do except point out that Bergoglio is spewing nonsense (the Global Warming Hoax) and heresy (shack-ups are really married).
As I said before, go to Rome, snatch Bergoglio’s beanie off his head, and tell him to his face that he is not Pope. Then get back to me and tell me what happens next.
Quite frankly, I think you and I are done here. Your post repeatedly telling me to go to Rome, snatch Francis’ beanie, proclaim him non-pope and see what happens seems to me like you are just being disrespectful of and belittling my position.
Homey don’t play that.
I am merely pointing out that any discussion of the status of a living putative Pope by a couple of Americans is absolutely, totally abstract and academic.
My exhortation about Bergoglio’s beanie was not intended to be demeaning to you. It was intended to illustrate the pointlessness of AUTOMATIC provisions in the Church’s law.
What is a Pope called who has “lost his authority” due to heresy?
“Your Holiness.”
And my point which you prefer to ignore (like you prefer to ignore your pope) is that by divine law a public, manifest heretic pope loses his office ipso facto without a declaratory sentence.
For you to tell me that following Catholic principles in living my Catholic Faith is merely “academic” is pathetic.
You are missing my point.
I’m not saying you are wrong.
I’m saying that “automatic” penalties or other provisions in the law are useless.
It’s all well and good to say that Bergoglio isn’t Pope, as long as there is evidence that that is so. And there’s plenty of evidence.
How does that help the Church get rid of him? It doesn’t.
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