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Leading cleric says Orthodox Church’s ‘Vatican II’ is a go
Crux ^ | 06-07-2016 | John L. Allen Jr.

Posted on 06/08/2016 12:42:39 PM PDT by NRx

"Unity is an objective, not a given," says the Rev. John Chryssavgis, an archdeacon and theological adviser to Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople. "It may be there spiritually and liturgically and sacramentally, but to make it visible is hard, painful, slow work, and it takes time."

In a sense, the “Great and Holy Council of the Orthodox Church”, conceived as a gathering of all the heads of the 14 independent Orthodox churches around the world in Crete June 16-27, has been at least a millennium in the making. More proximately, planning has been underway since 1961, meaning more than a half-century.

As a result, it’s perhaps no surprise there have been a few hiccups along the way.

Recently, two of the fourteen Orthodox churches have floated boycotting - the Bulgarians, because they’re upset over some of the documents up for discussion and also the seating arrangements, and the Patriarchate of Antioch, over a jurisdictional dispute involving Qatar.

On Monday, the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, traditionally the “first among equals” in the Orthodox world, issued a call to all Orthodox leaders to show up and to uphold rules for the meeting agreed upon in January 2016.

According to the Rev. John Chryssavgis, the archdeacon and theological adviser to Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople, who will serve on a drafting committee for the council’s final message, the summit is going ahead no matter what.

“The council is still on,” Chryssavgis told Crux in a June 6 interview, just ahead of his departure for Crete. “If one or more churches don’t attend, all the decisions made will still hold and be binding for all Orthodox churches.”

(Excerpt) Read more at cruxnow.com ...


TOPICS: Current Events; Orthodox Christian
KEYWORDS: antioch; belgrade; bulgaria; faithandphilosophy; greece; greekorthodox; johnchryssavgis; orthodoxchristian; orthodoxchurch; panorthodoxcouncil; qatar; russia; serbia
I would take a great deal of what is written in this article with a supersized dose of salt. That said a lot of this does represent the views of the Ecumenical Patriarchate and therein lies a whole lot of trouble.

But FWIW the concerns raised by the Bulgarians, Antioch, Georgia and the Russian churches (and the monks of Mt. Athos along with numerous bishops and monastics throughout the Orthodox world) involve a great deal more than seating arrangements and a local (though rather important) territorial dispute between two of the churches. There are very serious theological and ecclesiological issues being raised. The EP's attempt to treat these concerns with what appears to be studied contempt is disturbing.

And with respect to... “If one or more churches don’t attend, all the decisions made will still hold and be binding for all Orthodox churches.” All I can say is that if this is the EP's position then they are in for a rude shock.

1 posted on 06/08/2016 12:42:39 PM PDT by NRx
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To: NRx

Unity is dead wrong. The very principle has no just cause. This is a transparent attempt to create a single global religion to be enforced by the decisions of the UN.

And ultimately, the result will look very much like sharia.


2 posted on 06/08/2016 12:53:03 PM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: NRx

OK, the Orthodox church is not my religion, and I know very little about it.

What exactly is this meetin supposed to accomplish??


3 posted on 06/08/2016 12:56:35 PM PDT by chesley (The right to protest is not the right to disrupt.)
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To: chesley

“OK, the Orthodox church is not my religion, and I know very little about it.

What exactly is this meetin supposed to accomplish??”

I am Orthodox, and I can’t answer that question. Which is why a lot of us are very very nervous.


4 posted on 06/08/2016 1:08:22 PM PDT by NRx
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To: NRx

Gosh, it really does sound like Vatican II. I have to wonder whether this is how the post Vatican II church and the Orthodox church will falsely unite.


5 posted on 06/08/2016 1:11:33 PM PDT by piusv (The Spirit of Christ hasn't refrained from using separated churches as means of salvation:VII heresy)
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To: NRx

Yeah, well, I understand that. Thanks. :)


6 posted on 06/08/2016 1:28:26 PM PDT by chesley (The right to protest is not the right to disrupt.)
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To: NRx
Whatever happens, I think that it's a good thing for SOME process of unification to start. Usually what the Church starts (Catholic or Orthodox) takes a LONG time to complete and I see that as a good thing as well.

In the Roman Catholic Church the Orthodox may take Holy Communion at a Roman Catholic Mass. The reverse is NOT acceptable. Just a comment.

7 posted on 06/08/2016 2:50:47 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: NRx

As an outsider, I was curious as well.

While I can understand the desire to see that everyone is on the same pages of ESTABLISHED doctrine, as well as the desire for communication and unity, especially in combating global oppressive secular and religious influences, any time the headline of the story mentions Vatican-2, it is as if red lights are flashing, sirens are blaring, and massive asteroid impact is at hand!

The analogy I would make to the secular world is to beware of a NAFTA-EU paradigm, i.e. get one group to merge together then merge the merged groups into a one world religion.

Where is Metropolitan Kyrill coming down on this and has Metropolitan Hillarion made any interesting statements concerning it?

Their sources were pretty astute in smelling something afoot on the Catholic side back in 2005, but I don’t know where they would now come down on the global matter.

Or is the reason for the conference all something merely mundane as non-prosletization in other’s territories, setting up spheres of influence in the Ukraine, etc.?


8 posted on 06/08/2016 4:25:08 PM PDT by SGNA
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To: NRx

“I am Orthodox, and I can’t answer that question. Which is why a lot of us are very very nervous.”

As an Orthodox lay person you are “very nervous”? What about our role in the Church don’t you understand?


9 posted on 06/08/2016 5:42:11 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen and you, O death, are annihilated!)
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To: piusv

” Gosh, it really does sound like Vatican II. I have to wonder whether this is how the post Vatican II church and the Orthodox church will falsely unite”

There will be no Orthodox Vatican II because our hierarchs have no power to create a Vatican II or impose anything on the People of God unless we agree. And trust me, the Orthodox laity will no more accept a union with Rome today than we did when the hierarchy tried to impose the false union of Florence on us.


10 posted on 06/08/2016 5:49:53 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen and you, O death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis

how does one become orthodox, just in case I decide to make a change......


11 posted on 06/08/2016 6:04:05 PM PDT by cherry
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To: chesley

What is this meeting supposed to accomplish?

Nobody knows. That’s what makes it like Vatican II.


12 posted on 06/08/2016 6:18:46 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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To: SGNA

Vatican II started with such high hopes - and look at the dreadful outcome. I don’t know about this council.

The Orthodox churches have diffuse power structures, and are hard to change. So maybe they will not be affected by this plan.


13 posted on 06/08/2016 10:31:20 PM PDT by BlackVeil ('The past is never dead. It's not even past.' William Faulkner)
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To: Kolokotronis

Bad or unconstructive councils may not be received by the Church, but they can still cause a lot of damage. There were more than a few Robber Councils that provoked schisms and there is the 8th Council where we recognize one and the Latins another.


14 posted on 06/09/2016 9:37:52 AM PDT by NRx
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To: NRx

“...and there is the 8th Council where we recognize one and the Latins another.”

And? It’s a fallen world, NRx and notwithstanding the whining of some Western converts to Orthodoxy who left their former sects “because they had gotten too Democrat” or words to that effect as one told me last year, we are also tough. Life for the Orthodox throughout much of the East has been tough for at least the last 1300 years and we are still here, still faithful to The Church and The Faith. Stop worrying and continue praying the Jesus Prayer.


15 posted on 06/09/2016 11:17:45 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen and you, O death, are annihilated!)
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To: BlackVeil

People may have had high hopes because of the positive press spin, which should have been a danger signal in and of itself, but that is because they were unaware of the game plan for Vatican-2, as was everyone except the conspirators and their sycophants on the sidelines.

Councils are never held except to define some doctrine in refutation of specific heresy.

Some thought that Vatican-2 might further condemn Communism in addition to the papal edicts already against it, or perhaps other errors in modern life, and the various Vatican curia offices drew up specific schema to be presented that were orthodox and faithful in their content - but they were all thrown out on the first day of the Council.

This one was called by Roncalli for his Aggiornamento or Updating - not something one does with the revealed Deposit of the Faith.


16 posted on 06/09/2016 3:13:40 PM PDT by SGNA
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