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Is God Incapable of Deceiving?
Freep | 05/24/2016 | Charles O'Connell

Posted on 05/24/2016 10:28:56 AM PDT by CharlesOConnell

Muslims say Allah first revealed Himself to the Children of Israel, but they had the audacity to question Him, so He took away His revelation. And the same with the Christians.

Muslims say, Allah asked His angels, "What are the animals' names?" (To know the name of a thing is to have power over it.) They replied, "we don't know because You didn't tell us."

Muslims say that Allah's omnipotence is so great, that He can do anything He wants, including things that, to we little humans, seem to violate His, admittedly, infinite rationality.

When Catholics pray, "O my God, I firmly believe all the truths which You have revealed, You, Who can neither be deceived, nor deceive,", are Catholics the heretics?

(Hairesis, "splitting", emphasizing a fragment of the truth in preference to the totality of the truth).


TOPICS: Catholic; Islam
KEYWORDS: truth
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To: Mrs. Don-o
There used to be, a millennium ago, within Islam, a school of philosophy called the Mu'tazilites. They believed that God is reasonable, truthful and good because of His inherent character.

I would go so far as call that self-evident. Evil comes from imbalanced craving, the experience of lack, especially of love, which is by definition impossible for God.

No wonder Islam rejects that - and look at the results.

21 posted on 05/24/2016 1:49:25 PM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: CharlesOConnell

No. But man is.


22 posted on 05/24/2016 1:55:25 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: Theo
As far as I understand it, there's no problem with being an actor, since nobody is actually deceived. Everybody knows this is an act.

A little trickier for a spy or a war-time situation. Again --- as far as I understand it--- the injustice done in lying, is intentionally deceiving a person about information to which they have a right.

Therefore when the Nazis ask you where Anne Frank is hiding, they have no right to this information and if you give it, you are becoming an accomplice in murder, and they ave no right to ask you to be an accomplice in murder. So it is no injustice to say "I don't know" or "It's quite possible she went to France."

As for the spy: I think the various acts would have to be evaluated on an act-by-act basis. Silence is not lying; neither is an ambiguity which the person misunderstands (as you hoped they would.)

For instance, you, a spy, travel about dressed in a Franciscan brown habit. You reasonably expect that other people will think you *are* a Franciscan, but you didn't actually tell them that, and you are under no obligation to correct their mistaken assumption.

I don't think this solves all dilemmas, but maybe it clarifies a bit??

23 posted on 05/24/2016 2:11:44 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Mater et Magistra.)
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To: Advil000
Actually, the underlying Greek word for "delusion" in 2 Thess. 2:11 is "planē" meaning "objectively fraudulence; subjectively a straying from orthodoxy or piety: - deceit, to deceive, delusion, error." This passage is speaking of the End Time of the Antichrist, so I'm unsure if we should have it apply to all times and all eras. But God, clearly, will send strong delusion to the damned of that time according to that passage. If you think about it, the damned of that day would have to be deluded to think they're doing "right" by persecuting and executing as many Christians as they can get their hands on. So that prophecy couldn't come true without that deluded attitude and mindset.
24 posted on 05/24/2016 2:13:18 PM PDT by afsnco
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To: DannyTN

I disagree. I believe God in his Truthfulness cannot and will not deceive. That is totally different than Him using humans’ perception and choice against themselves. Pharaoh hardened his heart - and God used that. The confusion of Israel’s enemies could have been their own false perceptions of reality or inherent fears or physical limitations. The road to Emmaus Jesus did not owe them an explanation of his intentions, more like he ‘begged the prompting’ (i.e., begged the question) to stay with them.

Yes, this will open up a can of worms for those who cannot fully grasp what God foreknows, He can predestine (Rom 8:29). And I’m one of 7.5 billion of them.


25 posted on 05/24/2016 2:42:53 PM PDT by time4good
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To: Talisker

Christian mystics, about the same, not in the particulars, but the general ideas you so beautifully describe. Thanks.


26 posted on 05/24/2016 10:13:47 PM PDT by opus1 (This is all getting rather confusing.)
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To: opus1

You’re welcome. One of the most beautiful mystic poets is Rumi, who was not Hindu but Sufi. He writes of the “wine of God” and being “drunk” with the love of God, seeing God everywhere and losing himself, “lost in the love” and not only unable to find his way back, but not caring if he did.

I often wonder if that’s how St. Francis or St. Thérèse of Lisieux were to be around, if they’d just “go off” into divine communion for awhile. Maybe that’s when the animals would come around, the birds, etc. I know some saints needed “caretakers” because they’d just forget their bodies altogether. The power of the Holy Spirit around them must have been immense and palpable to everyone present.

I’ve always been a big “saints fan” LOL.


27 posted on 05/24/2016 10:31:03 PM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: Talisker

Yes, mystics are rarer than saints. There are always some around because they keep the world going, while the world ignores them and they avoid it, so we don’t see them much.

I’ve had a few books of Rumi poetry for many years (well, decades)!


28 posted on 05/26/2016 7:03:49 PM PDT by opus1 (This is all getting rather confusing.)
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To: CharlesOConnell

When the truth of God is presented to people, most walk away deceived.


29 posted on 05/26/2016 7:12:46 PM PDT by inpajamas (Texas Akbar!!!!!!!)
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