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To: Salvation; chajin

“Evidently you have not attended a Tridentine Mass. It far surpasses the Orthodox.”

In the late 900s, Prince Vladimir of Kiev sent out some of his boyars to view and report back on the religious ceremonies of the Bulgarians (Mohammedan), the Germans (Latins) and the Greeks at Constantinople. Here is their report:

“”When we journeyed among the Bulgars, we beheld how they worship in their temple, called a mosque, while they stand ungirt. The Bulgar bows, sits down, looks hither and thither like one possessed, and there is no happiness among them, but instead only sorrow and a dreadful stench. Their religion is not good.

“Then we went among the Germans, and saw them performing many ceremonies in their temples; but we beheld no glory there.

“Then we went to Greece, and the Greeks led us to the edifices where they worship their God, and we knew not whether we were in heaven or on earth. For on earth there is no such splendor or such beauty, and we are at a loss how to describe it. We only know that God dwells there among men, and their service is fairer than the ceremonies of other nations. For we cannot forget that beauty.”

Same Divine Liturgy today as back in 900.


17 posted on 05/08/2016 4:20:11 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen and you, O death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis; Salvation; marshmallow
“Then we went to Greece, and the Greeks led us to the edifices where they worship their God, and we knew not whether we were in heaven or on earth."

This is the same as what Abbot Suger said about his experience of Gothic cathedrals (he designed Saint-Denis) 200 years later.

The weakness of the Romanesque model was the lack of light in the sanctuary, which would have affected the sense of "glory" (to use Vladimir's term) in the rite. The massive, eventually stained-glass windows of the Gothic, however, allowed for by the combination of groin vaults and flying buttresses, would have caused a very different effect.

In John 9, Jesus heals a blind man, not so that he can see the world, but so that he can see Christ (John 35:38). It is my conviction that the function of our senses is twofold. Their rational function is so we can navigate the world (Salvation, you remember the discussion on the nature of reality we had a few days ago). Their necessary function, however, is so we can prepare ourselves for the full experience of God in Heaven by practicing the experience of God on Earth. We see color so that we csn practice seeing the multicolored majesty of God; we hear sounds so we can practice communing with the Spirit of God and the Word of God, in both words and music; we taste so we can practice tasting and seeing the goodness of the Lord; we smell so we can practice sensing prayers to and from the Spirit of God; we touch so we can practice the closeness and intimacy of theosis and koinonia.

Which takes us back to which liturgy in which setting best accomplishes this. In 900, it was probably the Orthodox, though in 1200 or 1300 it might well have been the Tridentine Mass in a Gothic cathedral, complete with Ars Antiqua music. Today, it might even be in a massive soccer stadium in Nigeria where the "liturgy" is nothing more than a 1,000,000 people singing the same praise chorus. The best is where God is, Orthodox, Catholic, Lutheran, Pentecostal.

There is a line in Chariots of Fire where Eric Liddell says that when he runs, he feels God's pleasure. In one hour, I will be going to my very small Lutheran congregation, to play the organ and read the first lesson. If I am blessed, I will at some point in the service feel His pleasure. I might get more out of a Nova mass, or a Tridentine mass, or an Orthodox eucharist, or Family Worship Center's praise and worship service, but for this morning, I am persuaded that I am where God wants me, and if He wants me elsewhere, He'll lead me there as well. Let us all worship Him today.

18 posted on 05/08/2016 5:29:01 AM PDT by chajin ("There is no other name under heaven given among people by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12)
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