Posted on 01/22/2016 2:40:45 PM PST by piusv
ROME, January 21, 2016 (LifeSiteNews) – A group of Finnish Lutherans were offered Holy Communion by priests at a mass held at the Vatican following a meeting with Pope Francis, according to a report by the Finnish periodical Kotimaa 24.
The Lutherans were members of an annual ecumenical delegation to Rome on the part of Catholics, Orthodox, and Lutherans to celebrate the feast day of St. Henry of Uppsala, who is credited with the evangelization of Finland in the 12th century.
After an audience with the pope, the delegation was present at a celebration of the Catholic mass. According to a Lutheran bishop who was present, at the time of communion the non-Catholics placed their right hands on their left shoulders, a traditional way of indicating that they were ineligible to receive the Eucharist. However, the celebrating priests insisted on giving them communion.
Lutheran bishop Samuel Salmi told Kotimaa 24 that “I myself accepted it [Holy Communion].†He added that “this was not a coincidence,†and nor was it a coincidence when last year the pope seemed to accept the notion of a Lutheran woman receiving communion with her Catholic husband. The original article, written in Estonian, was translated for LifeSiteNews by Voice of the Family's Maria Madise.
RELATED: Pope’s advice to Lutheran woman: A clue to how he’ll rule on Communion for the ‘remarried’?
At that time the pope acknowledged that “explanations and interpretations†of communion may differ between Catholics and Lutherans, but “life is bigger than explanations and interpretations.†He advised the woman to “Talk to the Lord and then go forward.â€
“At the root of this there is, without a doubt, the ecumenical attitude of a new Vatican,†Salmi told Kotimaa 24. “The pope was not here at the mass, but his strategic intention is to carry out a mission of love and unity. There are also theological adversaries in the Vatican, for which reason it is difficult to assess how much he can say, but he can permit practical gestures.â€
Canon 844 of the Catholic Church’s Code of Canon Law only permits the Eucharist to be given to Catholics in the state of grace (that is, not in a state of grave sin), except in cases of non-Catholics who request communion and who are from churches that are approved by the Holy See as holding the same faith as Catholics regarding communion. Lutherans have traditionally been seen as not holding to the same faith as Catholics on the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.
In addition to its implications for Catholic-Lutheran relations, the event may also represent the pope’s liberal inclinations regarding the giving of communion to other groups, such as those who are divorced and civilly remarried without having received an annulment of their previous marriage.
Francis has repeatedly insinuated that he wants to change the practice of refusing communion to the divorced and remarried, speaking warmly of Catholic theologians – such as Cardinal Walter Kasper – who advocate such an approach. However, he has yet to announce any decision on the matter.
In his remarks to the Finnish delegation, Francis seems to hint at the movement towards intercommunion when he tells the ecumenical delegation, “Your dialogue is making promising progress towards a shared understanding, on the sacramental level, of Church, Eucharist and Ministry. These steps forward, made together, lay a solid basis for a growing communion of life in faith and spirituality, as your relations develop in a spirit of serene discussion and fraternal sharing.â€
The pope’s Prefect of Divine Worship, Cardinal Robert Sarah, has expressed profound concerns about the pontiff’s tendency to open communion to those whose beliefs or behavior are inconsistent with the Catholic faith.
“It’s not that I have to talk to the Lord in order to know if I should go to Communion,†he told Aleteia reporter Diane Montagna in late November. “No, I have to know if I’m in accord with the rule of the Church.â€
“It’s not a personal desire or a personal dialogue with Jesus that determines if I can receive Communion in the Catholic Church,†he added. “How can I know that the Lord has really said: ‘Come and receive My Body.’ No. A person cannot decide if he is able to receive Communion. He has to have the rule of the Church: i.e., being a Catholic, being in a state of grace, properly married [if married].â€
Sure, you can have previously confected Eucharist. If that was the case, the service you described is still abominable and a sacrilege.
Aw, you gotta love the “interfaith” anti-Catholic movement. Kumbaya!
To my knowledge (and I may be wrong) they don’t believe in transubstantiation.
Didn’t bishops leave the Catholic Church as well, and couldn’t they ordain more priests & bishops (as Archbishop Lefebvre did)?
Cpt Dave, I agree with your comment: “Christians should put aside their differences and unite to face the latest “Siege of Viennaâ€, the moslem onslaught against Europe.”
And add the onslaught that is coming against the United States.
“Confect”? Do you mean that the priest himself brings about the consecration as if by magic? This would make your priests fundamentally different from ours. As I recall, one of the elements of the Liturgy the medieval Latin Church did away with was the epiklesis. Is that because Rome thought the HS had nothing to do with the sacrament?
BTW, while we can apparently receive the Eucharist at one of your liturgies (but don’t, properly), we do not return the gesture.
I was raised by two conservative, devout Lutherans. I have personally never adopted the anti-Catholic position formerly common therein; I have equally never adopted the modern ecumenical position.
As a professional chorister, I have often performed in cathedrals. I have sometimes been offered the Eucharist (at “liberal” - read communistic - Catholic Churches); I have always refused, usually the only one to do so. I have done so not only because I am not a Catholic, and do not accept all Catholic doctrines; I have done so because it is inherently disrespectful to Canon Law to do so, regardless of the local church’s failure to respect its own law.
My best friend is a devout Catholic woman. Obviously, we disagree on certain things. Speaking as a non-Catholic, I will say the Number One - and I emphasize, Number One! - problem I have with an ecclesiastical organization that has historically advocated a hierarchical structure over the dangers of an independent congregational structure is this: This supremely hierarchical church, which proclaims that its clergy and laity do as they are told, allows Nancy Pelosi, in my considered opinion an impenitent de facto murderer, to continue to take the Eucharist.
(Full disclosure: I am no longer a member of the Lutheran church. I have served on staff in two congregations of different denominations, and have seen up close and personal the heresy and decadence that has infested the so-called mainlines [largely thanks to Fuller Theological Seminary and Liberation Theology].
After years of such service, I balked at attending the seminary for which I was being groomed. I am now an independent ordained minister.)
***But he will not genuflect when he consecrates the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ.***
What??? I did not know this!
Christ will protect His Bride, the Church. False prophets, He will spit them out!
NEWS FLASH: ALL CHRISTIANS RECEIVE COMMUNION
Here is what Luther wrote:
Who, but the devil, has granted such license of wresting the words of the holy Scripture? Who ever read in the Scriptures, that my body is the same as the sign of my body? or, that is is the same as it signifies? What language in the world ever spoke so? It is only then the devil, that imposes upon us by these fanatical men. Not one of the Fathers of the Church, though so numerous, ever spoke as the Sacramentarians:not one of them ever said, It is only bread and wine; or, the body and blood of Christ is not there present.
Surely, it is not credible, nor possible, since they often speak, and repeat their sentiments, that they should never (if they thought so) not so much as once, say, or let slip these words: It is bread only; or the body of Christ is not there, especially it being of great importance, that men should not be deceived. Certainly, in so many Fathers, and in so many writings, the negative might at least be found in one of them, had they thought the body and blood of Christ were not really present: but they are all of them unanimous." - Luther's Collected Works, Wittenburg Edition, no. 7 p, 391
RCC has a several very good Popes (notwithstanding that some do not agree with all they did)...but now things may be going the other way for awhile it seems...
the problem with any hierarchial organization is that one or few people in the wrong jobs at or near the top...can do a great deal of damage... (one need only look at the Obama regime to see how bad this can get in an extreme case...see my clever little tag line below, ha!)
the congregational approach can avoid much of this risk...
***All of this is a direct result of the false ecumenism promoted at Vatican II.***
Absolutely.
After the generation which defected from the Church died the reformed churches lost their Apostolicity. That is the direct line of Ordination from the Apostles. Catholics and Orthodox priests are all ordained by a Bishop who was ordained by a Bishop who was ordained by a Bishop, etc. all the way back to the Apostles who were, of course, ordained by Our Lord Jesus Christ.
Most Catholic priests in the US can trace their Ordination to St James since he established the Church in Spain and France, which later sent missionaries to America.
I understand what you’re saying. Lutherans can receive communion on special occasions in a Catholic Mass. Catholic CAN NEVER receive communion in a Lutheran Service. It is strictly forbidden, because Lutheran pastors do not have Holy Orders and the Catholic Church does not recognize any priest other than Catholic or Orthodox.
That is a different situation.
Those priests were ordained in the Catholic Rite of Ordination and those bishops were consecrated in the Old Rite of Episcopal Consecration, so they are all valid Catholic priests and bishops. They continue to ordain and consecrate with the Catholic rites. They did not change the rites to a protestant or non-Catholic version.
Um, no. Confect and consecrate mean the same thing.
Correction: Some Christians receive communion. All others receive bread.
Yes, and the Orthodox shouldn't be allowed to receive in the Catholic Church either. Before Vatican II and JPII's Canon Law they were not allowed.
I agree. Reception of the Eucharist at the Liturgy is the quintessential symbol of unity, a unity which does not exist between the Latin West and the Orthodox East. There are those in the West who believe that this central Mystery of our Faith is a means to unity. This very, very wrong which is why we decline the invitation to receive the Eucharist at your liturgies.
“Um, no. Confect and consecrate mean the same thing.”
Is there an equivalent of the epiklesis in your liturgies?
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