Posted on 10/23/2015 11:57:28 AM PDT by conservativejoy
I have grave concern about Carson's positions on many issues (illegal immigration, fetal tissue research, foreign policy), but no issue is more concerning to me than how he could be an effective Commander in Chief.
Dr. Carson is an elder in the Seventh Day Adventist Church which has since its founding taught pacifism. Founded in the 1860's during the Civil War, those of the Seventh Day Adventist faith have served in the military in non combatant roles.
Dr. Carson has, I believe rightly so, denounced those of the Muslim faith as qualified to be President, but does he himself have a faith conflict that would render him unable to effectively command our Armed Forces?
I offer this reference as food for thought, from Adventists World.
The Battle
Should Adventists serve in the military?
By Ted N. C. Wilson
The question of military service came up early in the history of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Officially organized in 1863 during the height of the U.S. Civil War, the new denomination almost immediately had to wrestle with how its members would respond to the call to arms.
Private Roy WAs with other difficult questions, the pioneer leaders studied the issues using the Bible as their guide, and concluded that the position most consistent with biblical principles was noncombatancy (the conscientious objection to bearing arms). The primary reason for this position was that Adventists serving in the U.S. military would be forced to compromise their loyalty to God if they obeyed the commands of their officers. The two Bible commandments most directly involved were the fourth—to keep the Sabbath holy, and the sixth—not to kill.
A Position of Noncombatancy
For a time Seventh-day Adventist congregations helped their young men avoid conscription by paying a commutation fee of $300. But by 1864 the young church had successfully appealed to the United States federal government for an official designation of noncombatancy. This position, updated through the years, states that “noncombatant service” means “(a) service in any unit of the armed forces which is unarmed at all times; (b) service in the medical department of any of the armed forces . . . ; or (c) any other assignment of the primary function of which does not require the use of arms in combat; provided that such other assignment is acceptable to the individual concerned and does not require them to bear arms or to be trained in their use.”1
By taking an official position of noncombatancy, the church opened the way for its members who were drafted into the military to serve in positions where they could bring healing and restoration. Since that time thousands of Adventist men and women have served as medics, nurses, doctors, and other medical professionals in the armed services of their countries. Many others have been able to take civil service positions in lieu of required active military duty.
Conscripted Service
In some countries, however, noncombatancy options are not available, and Adventists are required to serve in their country’s military. Even then, these young believers have sought for ways to be faithful to God while serving their country. During World War II, Franz Hasel, a faithful Seventh-day Adventist in Germany, was drafted into the German army. Suffering all kinds of taunts and abuse from his fellow soldiers and commanding officers because of his faithfulness to God, Franz earned their respect through his excellent marksmanship during training. When sent to the front lines in Russia, however, Franz secretly threw his army-issued pistol into a lake, replacing it with a carved piece of wood in his holster. Of the 1,200 soldiers in his unit, only seven survived the Russian front. Franz was one of them.2
We have to pray for peace—the peace that only Jesus can bring, now and in His kingdom to come, where there will be no more wars.
In the Pacific theater 16-year-old Sigeharu Suzuki was drafted into the Japanese Navy, where he was assigned to the infamous kamikaze unit. Each evening, while his fellow military pilots went out drinking, Sigeharu stayed behind to polish his buddies’ boots. Why? Because his Seventh-day Adventist grandmother had taught him to do something good whenever he could.
Twenty years after the war, during a reunion of the surviving members of the kamikaze unit, Sigeharu learned how shining boots had saved his life. “Every night I saw you shining your fellow soldiers’ boots,” the retired company commander told him, “and whenever your name appeared on the flight register, I put it at the end of the list.”
Voluntary Military Service
In more recent times, voluntary rather than conscripted military service has been the option in many countries. As incentives to serve, governments offer many benefits, including scholarships, career training, financial bonuses, and more. In addition to these benefits, some people have a desire to serve their country as an expression of patriotism or their political values.
The question is: How should we as individual Seventh-day Adventists, and as a worldwide church, relate to voluntary military service?
Gary Councell, director of Adventist Chaplaincy Ministries, addresses this question in his book, Seventh-day Adventists in Military Service: “Though the Seventh-day Adventist Church advocates a noncombatant position, pacifism, military service, or noncombatancy are not tests of church membership. The denomination does not act as the conscience for any member or military commander, but it does seek to inform the conscience and behavior of both, so decisions can be made with a maximum of understanding and thought.”3
Thus, while the official church position is that of noncombatancy—conscientious objection to bearing arms—the decision as to whether or not to serve in the military and bear arms is left to the conscience of the individual. However, the church does not encourage people to join the military for reasons that include the biblical concept of noncombatancy, the difficulty to obtain full Sabbath observance, and other challenges. Regardless of the decision the individual makes, the church is committed to ministering and providing pastoral care and support to all of its members, including those serving in the military, and to their families.
Position Reaffirmed
The official church position of noncombatancy was reaffirmed in the 1950s, and again in an action voted at the 1972 Annual Council of the General Conference. In part, that action reads: “Genuine Christianity manifests itself in good citizenship and loyalty to civil government. The breaking out of war among men in no way alters the Christian’s supreme allegiance and responsibility to God or modifies their obligation to practice their beliefs and put God first. “This partnership with God through Jesus Christ who came into this world not to destroy men’s lives but to save them causes Seventh-day Adventists to advocate a noncombatant position.”4
Heroic Conscientious Objector
Probably the best-known Seventh-day Adventist noncombatant soldier was Desmond Doss, who served as a medic in the United States Army during World War II. Corporal Doss, whose heroic story was told in the 2004 film The Conscientious Objector, is best known for saving the lives of 75 of his fellow soldiers during a fierce battle on the island of Okinawa. Under constant enemy fire, Doss refused to seek cover, but instead carried the wounded soldiers one by one, lowering each one on a rope-supported litter he had devised, using double bowline knots. Each wounded man was lowered to safety, 35 feet below the ridgetop where the battle raged.
This act of courage earned Desmond Doss the highest honor his country could bestow—the U.S. Congressional Medal of Honor. He was the first and one of only three conscientious objectors to ever receive this honor.
The Witness of Peace
Seventh-day Adventists have maintained their historic witness in favor of peace and noncombatancy throughout the 151 years of the church’s existence. This position has not been hidden: in the most public manner possible, church leaders periodically have called on world leaders to avoid conflicts and seek the Prince of Peace. Note this open letter, published three years after the close of World War I on the inside cover of the Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, the church’s official paper. It was signed by the president, secretary, and treasurer of the General Conference: “As Seventh-day Adventists, in common with other religious bodies, we strongly favor a limitation of armaments, and if it were possible in the present state of society, we would favor the abolition of all war among the nations of men. We are forced to this view by the very logic of our belief in Him who is the Prince of Peace, and of our experience as subjects of His kingdom.”5
People of Prayer
As Seventh-day Adventists, we have to be people of prayer. While the world is engaged in battles that can be seen, many invisible but very real battles of the great controversy are going on every day. Satan and his angels are battling against each one of us, striving to at last claim this world as his own.
We have to pray for our countries, wherever we are in the world, and for the leaders of our countries. We have to pray for each other, and for service members, whether they have been drafted or have chosen to serve their country voluntarily. And most of all, we have to pray for peace—the peace that only Jesus can bring now, and in His kingdom to come, where there will be no more wars.
“And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away” (Rev. 21:4, KJV). Let us lift up and proclaim Christ, the Prince of peace and our coming King.
Wow! I didn’t know about his position on Medicare. Worse and worse.
He’s a trojan horse to keep Trump in check while they consolidate on the bottom.
It’s grandma’s fault for not living right, and eating unclean things.
I just read this morning (early) about how Carson supports putting Farrakhan in charge of Police Policy in Chicago. He is also a big supporter of Al Sharpton, attended his dinner and said he agrees with him on a lot of issues. He would just go about them differently. CARSON is OUT for me. (He was in about 3rd place behind Trump & Cruz. Not no more!
From the account of Christ violently driving the money changers from the temple? As I recall, he drove them out with whips.
Wait... I’m not “proselytizing”. I could not convert anyone because I have no religious faith. I belong to no denomination. Belief and trust in God transcends religion.
Seems to me you were anti-proselytizing and condemning a candidate for his faith. Because I don’t care how many angels can dance on the head of a pin does not mean I am proselytizing.
Well, those are different issues. The other issue involved condemning him as a candidate because he is an Adventist.
Yes, when a religion teaches that Jesus Christ was an Archangel, or in any way detracts from His Deity, they are by definition a cult. Jehovah’s Witnesses and SDA have this teaching in common.
I was focusing on his faith as being in conflict with military combat, and have not been in any way reassured by those who don’t see this as a problem for a C in C.
Yeah, maybe.
Religious pacifism is a cop out to avoid serving in combat.
I was in the service with a JW. He talked the talk, had a hard time with saluting the flag, celebrating anything, etc.
He did not, however, have a hard time getting the clap in the Philippines.
I think you have nailed it. There has to be some reason he has not been challenged on his many weak positions.
That’s good to hear. I don’t care about his religion either except that it is being used as a false front and what he truly believes ought to matter. Pacifist CIC? No thanks.
I did not know that he was SDA and yes, that is troubling. I am going to have rethink my support for him in light of this intelligence.
I believe their position on military service is optional, I’ve known many 7th Day-ers, some are pacifists (in draft years entered the Army under 1-A-O objector status, trained and served as medics in the Army but often would not carry weapons, 1-A-O gave them that legal option). Some are not pacifists, though the denomination has a long history of pacifists among its ranks.
He’s useful for the time being. I remember Trump saying he wasn’t a good doctor and then that dropped quickly. Then the article about him botching surgeries was floated and dropped.
There is plenty to take him out when the time comes.
I admire your logic and restraint. The military is a very serious question.
I’m just shocked. All of his Christian supporters are being fooled.
(Well, after all, us Repugs don wanna be called RAY-cess. Heaven forbid!) To H*ll with the economy,foreign policy and Muzzies taking over and killing us all!
Carson's got nothing! (except a rep for being a 'nice guy' and cracking cute little jokes.) He's got NOTHING. Just another weak RINO
What's he gonna do with Muslim terrorists colonizing the world??? Tell them cute little jokes and beg them 'please don't slaughter any more Christians. Pretty please, with sugar on it'?
We need a strong, brilliant steam roller like Trump to go in to Washington, slap down the sorry RINOs, deal with the muzzies (before they take over and kill us all) and clean up the mess Omuslim has made that has almost destroyed America and our way of life. We need someone to make America respected again- great again!!
I'd go for a Trump/Allen West ticket- but CARSON IS NO ALLEN WEST!!
I wonder if being pacifists gets the SDAs off of the Homeland Security Terrorist list? Or does it move them to the top, ahead of us bible and gun toters?
Thanks for your comments. I think you are right to be concerned. It amazes me that many aren’t, given his many questionable positions.
Carson is a Pacifist? No Problem!
Wants Farrakan in Charge of Public Policy in Chicago? No Problem!
Wants to do away with Medicare? No Problem!
Thinks it is immoral to deport illegals and wants them to have amnesty? No Problem!
Says he has the same goals as Al Sharpton? No Problem!
Makes you wonder if some of his supporters have had a free lobotomy.
I think Dave’s point was that Nixon, while a Quaker, served in the military and had no qualms about using our military. Of course, one might question how much of the Quaker beliefs Nixon followed. Same could be said of Carson I imagine - how “strict” is he? He’s said we should go after ISIS - so there is that.
I personally knew several conscientious objectors who served as medics. They were on the same battlefield, but without weapons. Several were wounded, some killed - no cop out there.
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