Posted on 09/19/2015 8:19:29 AM PDT by Salvation
Here is best source of information on NDE’s. It is the homepage of the International Association for Near Death Studies: http://www.iands.org/home.html
I was in the back seat of a car at 18 that DID crash violently but I felt us start to swerve because of rate of speed and hunkered down on floor. Right side of back seat was gone, i was on left.
All I remember thinking is i’m gonna die because I couldn’t breathe. Had the air knocked out of me, I guess.
Terrifying. Glad you had peace.
Sometimes I think that and some other outcomes that could have been severe made me thik I was special and protected by God.
Took stupid chances and turns out God doesn’t protect you from stupidity.
Is always dangerous to think you’re a special chosen one.
We all are special, but not good idea to push luck with God.
That is the very catholic perspective ... and denies the Born from above Promise of God. God’s Holy Spirit will not be going to Hell and GOD puts His Holy Spirit spark in the human spirit when one is born from above.
Msgr Pope is NOT the head of the “Catholic religion” that position is occupied by Pope Francis.
I’m not Catholic, thus I don’t find the “duplicity of catholic thing” that you apparently find any anything Catholic whether it is actually Catholic or not.
[[Just because you were “Born Again” is no guarantee you will go to heaven.]]
It most certainly is a guarantee I’ll be with My Lord when I die—
[[You still have to live a Holy life in the eyes of God.]]
How holy? 70%? 80%? 100%? (If 100%- then what do we Need Christ for? There is NO verse In the bible that states a man can be 100% Holy after salvation, and if we can’t be 100% holy, then we will ALL NEVER reach heaven because where God is there can be no sin- either Christ died for our sins and we are FOREVER forgiven of our sins, or He didn’t- Your theology DEMANDS that the very second a person dies they MUST quickly repent and ask forgiveness a split second before death because the next second a bad thought might arise- and the person is lost again- otherwise they die with sin in them and God makes it very clear in His word that there can be NO sin in heaven where He is.
Is Christ’s death sufficient or not? The theology you just threw at me makes it clear His death is NOT sufficient)
What is the formula for ‘sins allowed before losing salvation’? How holy were the carnal Christians that Paul spoke to and called ‘brethren’ and ‘babes in Christ’? 30%? 20%? 100%? How holy was King David whom the Lord called a man after His own heart? Did his murder and adultery make him 10% holy? 20%? 100%? How holy was Lot who lived a life of sin yet was called righteous many times?
The only message in the experience I had was a FALSE message that Satan buffeted me for many years over- The false message that Christians can lose their salvation - I’m not going to get into an argument with you over the heresy of Lordship Salvation- this is a thread about NDE’s
(Another verse by the apostle telling the people to look back at their salvation assuring them that that act is what saved them)
John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
(There’s no “Now you have it, now you don’t, now you do again- He who believes on God and Christ is eternally saved- they now have everlasting life)
John 10:28: “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”
(No matter what a man does after salvation- after coming to a point in theirl ife where they accept That Jesus is God, that He came to die and rise again, that the bible is true concerning Him- He is always saved- They shall NEVER perish)-
John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 10:28: “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”
(Free gift folks- Christ gives us this gift- we don’t earn it, or even work to keep it- He tells us over and over again it’s for eternity)
[[John 4:14: “But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.”
(Shall never thirst- IF we lose our salvation, as some believe, we would obviously thirst again- contradicting this verse)
John 6:35: “And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.”
(another promise that He who goes to Christ shall never hunger again- there is nothing in this verse or the previous verse that indicates we have to keep ‘working out our salvation’ in order to keep being fed and given water-)
[[John 6:39: “And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.”]]
(We don’t have to worry about people not accepting Christ- They are chosen of God and WILL be saved- no one will lead them astray- Christ will not lose any of His sheep- whom the Father has already given Him)
John 6:39: “And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.”
Ephesians 2:8-9: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.
(Those preaching that we must ‘work out our salvation’ must ignore this verse)
Ephesians 4:30: “And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”
(Sealed unto Salvation until the day of redemption- another nail In the coffin of the ‘we can lose our salvation’ theology)
[[1 Peter 1:23: “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever.”]]
(If we lose our salvation, then the word of God is corruptible- it is not eternal- )
Romans 6:23: “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
(Unconditional- It is a gift- we do not work for gifts- we simply accept a gift)
Titus 3:5: “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us
(Nope=- no ‘working out our salvation’ to be found in this verse)
Romans 4:5: “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.”
(This is why Lot was called a righteous man even though he lived a life of disobedience to God- He was still saved- even though he continually sinned- lived in sin-)
1 Peter 1:4: “To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you.”
(Incorruptible, We, if it were possible to lose our salvation, would corrupt the whole act of Salvation- Thank God it is indeed incorruptible)
Philippians 1:6: “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.”
(A VERY important verse which puts the lie to the idea that we can lose our salvation- Christ begins the work, and Christ alone finishes the work- it’s a solid promise- nothing I n this verse says “unless of course we sin along he way=- then all bets are off”- Christ finishes the work- we will NEVER be lost again after we accept Him as Savior with nothing more than a mustard seed of faith)
Hebrews 10:38-39: “Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.”
(Woops- scary looking verse that ‘looks like’ we can lose our salvation if we ‘fall away’ from the word and worship- however, this and all the other verses that ‘look like’ they mean that don’t infact mean that at all- This verse is talking about those who learn about God, but NEVER take the step of Salvation, and who rely on their own power and knowledge as their means of salvation rather than on Christ who saves eternally- We need to be VERY careful with verses like these- to understand the original text and context, and just as in this verse, we learn that it does NOT ifnact mean what it appears to mean when the original text is studied in context)
[[Either way, maybe God gave us DMT, possibly to make our passing easier to relieve fear and suffering.]]
I must have got the prototype DMT then- because it backfired in my case lol
I believe Stephen when the crowds stoned him had an NDE too?
(and perhaps many of the Christians brutally murdered by the romans over spitfires, getting eaten alive by lions and bears etc had them too- who knows-
Didn’t really much in my time of utter terror either lol.
Maybe we have defective DMT valves :)
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That does not describe a near death experience.
the apostles raised people from the dead as well- I dunno- perhaps the body can be dead but God hasn’t called the Soul to Heaven yet- in some cases-
There are cases of people in present times being ‘clinically dead’ no signs of life, yet they come back to life days later
It’s hard to know what exactly is meant by the ‘to be absent’ verse- one assumes it means that when the spirit is absent, so is the soul- but perhaps not
I had a vision/dream of hell once. I was in a room with no windows or doors. It smelled really bad, like rotting flesh and I was bathed in this feeling of being trapped and alone. Woke up sweating and shaking. Dropped to my knees and prayed hard for about an hour.
please note that my intention is my responses is not to attack you personally- but to defend my position that once we are Saved Christ keeps us until that day- It is a position I am very passionate about, especially in light of the AWFUL years I spent questioning whether I was ‘spiritual enough’ to be saved-
IF there was a message In the experience I had it was this ‘The fear you have of losing salvation is not a fear based on biblical truth, and you need to find the truth to settle it in your mind once and for all that salvation is permanent’
Like I said- Satan shook me terribly for many years after that experience- and it wasn’t until I began carefully examining God’s word In context, learning the greek words for verses which SEEMED to indicate we could lose our salvation, that I began to realize that nope- God does Not demand perfection of us- that we can do Nothing to save ourselves and that yep- there were Christians like me who lived in sin but were still saved-
Had this experience not happened, I probably never would have studied the issue as much as I did, and lived with a constant nagging fear that I wasn’t ‘spiritual enough’ to ‘maintain my salvation’- Thankfully that experience was the catalyst I needed to light a fire udner me to study God’s word and discover the many verses which make it clear our salvation is permanent- regardless of what we do after salvation-
[[ It smelled really bad, like rotting flesh and I was bathed in this feeling of being trapped and alone. ]]
Reminds me of when I use the bathroom In the morning.
J/K- My farts smell like roses- Of course I hate the smell of roses, but that’s another story-
People joke of ‘going to party with friends in hell’ - but little do they realize, hell is no party- we will be completely alone in hell, except for being attacked repeatedly by demons we won’t be able to see because of the blackness)-
Whether a vision, dram, hallucination (like I think mine was fro m the high fever), or an actual experience, Hell is a most frightening place
I was reading a Christian think tank article once, which revealed that people are NOT going to go there unknowingly- they are going there because they willfully ignored the Holy Spirits call for their whole lives because they willfully do NOT want to bow to God- they will go their willfully- shaking their fists in God’s face from them moment they die to the moment they are sentenced and cast rom heaven- their anger will be so severe, that they will gnash their teeth in violent fury declaring they would rather spend eternity in hell than Accept Christ- and yes, this includes the ‘good people’ who are unsaved too- Even unsaved ‘good people’ harbor a defiant angry unwillingness to heed the promptings of the Holy spirit- They may ‘want heaven’- BUT they want it ONLY on their own terms
Sad that people would choose hell over eternity with God- Hell is going to be a place FILLED with fury, and the sounds in the inky blackness will be both the fury of demons, and the fury and gnashing of teeth of the unsaved I n their complete hatred-
It describes what many here are describing — i.e., out of body experiences preceding heaven/hell experience.
That is what it is all about, to discern.
Little red flag there for pro-lifers and for the scientific community. The folks for whom consciousness fades experience different reactions. Brain activity, or lack thereof, is probably the best indicator we have of the end of life. But when does it cease completely and the person's soul pass from time into eternity? That second is as elusive as is the moment at conception when God imparts the soul into that little tiny cell.
If a person is clinically dead and has an experience, and returns to tell of it, maybe our means of determining death could use some reevaluation.
As an aside, we know people in both the Old and New Testaments were raised from the dead (or at least from a coma, as Jairus' daughter, "sleeping") what's to stop God from choosing to do so now?
One more point, and I'll get off the soap box. I always wonder what it was like for Lazarus to return from eternity after 3 days in our time (no one can fathom how long that was for him)... I always thought that, returning in a shroud, awakening in a tomb, I would be petrified; sick from the air, even angry that I had to return. But thinking about it just now, after reading the article, maybe Lazarus was comforted and strengthened in his return by the Voice of the One Who called him forth from the grave. Maybe he was just as happy to see Jesus as everyone was, to see him... Just a thought...
I read the article and posted; now as I read the posts, I think we’re on the same page. :)
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