Posted on 07/01/2015 7:13:05 AM PDT by RnMomof7
Recently there has been a surge in prominent Evangelicals calling for unity with Roman Catholicism. In one sense there seems to be strong foundational similarities that would justify these calls to unity. Catholics are baptized in the name of the Trinity. God’s revealed word in the Bible -- setting aside their addition of the Apocryphal books, for argument’s sake -- is foundational to their worldview. Catholics love Christ and believe that he died on the cross and rose again to provide grace for sinners.
Obviously there are theological differences associated with the specific teachings of each one of these perceived similarities, and I do not want to minimize the importance of these differences. But for argument‘s sake, at least on the surface, there is some common ground.
There is also a strong agreement in ethical standards. Both Roman Catholics and Evangelicals ground morality on God’s holy nature as revealed in the law of God. This means that on the hot button moral issues of the day; the murder of the unborn, human sexuality, the sanctity of marriage there is solidarity between Roman Catholic and Evangelical ethics because they are coming from the same source. Again, this seems to justify a call to some sense of unity.
Are these good enough reasons to publically stump for visible unity with Roman Catholics? That question is beyond the scope of this post. But there is a more fundamental question that must be answered first. That question serves as the dividing line between followers of Christ and the world, which separates biblical Christianity from every other worldview; does Rome possess and preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
The author of the book of Hebrews in chapter 10 contrasts the gospel with that which is but a shadow of the gospel. He argues:
"And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified." -- Heb 10:11–14
The argument being presented here makes it clear that Christ’s singular sacrifice, his death on the cross, perfects those for whom it is made for. This is the gospel. It is contrasted with the shadow of the gospel in which sacrifices were repeatedly made year after year because though they symbolized the atoning and perfecting sacrifice of Christ, they never themselves perfected those for whom they were made. The gospel of Jesus Christ perfects and any other religious strategies cannot.
This principle is directly applicable to the question of Roman Catholicism and the gospel of God. Roman Catholic worship centers on the mass. The mass is a series of liturgical practices that culminates in the Eucharist which according to paragraph 1068 of the Catholic of the Catholic Church (hereafter CCC) is a divine sacrifice. Paragraph 1367 of CCC calls the Eucharist a “truly propitiatory” sacrifice. This sacrifice is performed repeatedly in the life of a Catholic.
The reason the Eucharist is performed repeatedly is because even though it is claimed to be a propitiatory sacrifice that can make reparation for sins (CCC, 1414), it is a sacrifice that never perfects anyone. According to the Catholic message grace is something that you get from God by performing certain acts. First, God gives you the grace for faith in Jesus (CCC, 2000). Second, when you are baptized God graciously erases the sin of Adam from your record (CCC 1257). From that point on you get more grace by doing things like participating in the sacraments, including the Eucharist. The problem is that when you commit sins, you lose some of the grace you have gained and now need more lest your grace be found wanting at final judgment. This forces the Catholic into a position where they need to return day after day, week after week, and year after year to a priest who serves to repeatedly re-present the same sacrifice which never perfects those for whom it is made, since it only offers grace to cover some sin.
This is not the gospel.
Roman Catholics need the gospel for the same reason we all need it. We are all sinners with such a messed up and low view of how holy holiness really is that we think somehow through our own efforts we can attain it. If we just had enough time and willpower we could somehow have our good deeds outweigh our bad, and this will please God just enough for me to be acceptable to him. This is a satanic lie. A satanic lie that to some degree or another we have all bought into at some point in our life.
But the truth is glorious. God is good and God is holy. He is more good and more holy than we can possibly imagine. God is so good and so holy that anything less than absolute perfection is unacceptable in his presence. It is because of God’s awesome goodness and awesome holiness that in his wisdom he has offered us grace, through faith in Christ. A good and holy sacrifice that absolutely without question completely perfects everyone for whom it is made.
There ya go. Exactly.
Greek is a very specific language
John 12:32 if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."
Word Origin a prim. verb
to drag NASB Translation
drag (1), dragged (2), draw (1), draws (1), drew (2), haul (1).
That is in the passive voice.. meaning the object is passive in the action
By Catholic teaching, what must a sinner do to obtain this incorporation, and when does it occur?
Huh? What's in the passive voice? And a grammatical object has to be a noun, pronoun or other substantive -- nouns, etc. don't have a voice, only case, number and/or gender . . .
ἑλκύσω
will draw
Theosis is not a belief that is commonly held in Protestantism.... It tends to be an EO doctrine clouding the Creator/creature distinction.....Mormons look to become gods ......
We look to sanctification ... the process of growing more Christ like...one more time..Christ in you the hope of Glory ..
For me the purpose of life is not to become god.. but to glorify God and then to enjoy Him forever
and I, if I am lifted up from the earth, all will draw to myself, John 12:32
This moreover he said, signifying by what death he was about to die. John 12:33
Here is the World English rendering of the Greek< And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself." 33But he said this, signifying by what kind of death he should die.
The Internet is amazing for what is literally at our fingertips.
By Catholic teaching, what must a sinner do to obtain this incorporation, and when does it occur?
You don't think this refers to universal salvation, do you?
And the save verb (same in the LXX, which is Greek) is used here:
Hosea 11:4
"I drew them with human kindness, with loving bands. I acted toward them like one who removes a yoke from their neck; I bent down and fed them."
Check out the verb which can be translated "led" as well as "drew," and in this context it's rather far from the meaning of knocking somebody down and dragging them by the hair, and rather closer to the meaning of gently leading by the hand, as one would a child. There's a sense of guidance but not of coercive force.
“Will draw” is active voice.
In English, it sure is.
Tell me about grammatical objects in the passive.
History shows this to be completely true. Is there evidence to the contrary? I know I would love to see it.
Looks like it in Greek, too.
Not sure what you mean by this. Christ doesn't become "part" of my body, I become part of His body.
You needn't go beyond what Paul says (repeatedly,and quite evocatively) about us being members of His body (which is, precisely, incorporation) as well as what Peter says about us participating in the divine nature.
This isn't what the Mormons are talking about. They are not, as I understand it, monotheists; they believe in as many gods as there are inhabited planets. (I don't want to misconstrue them, take with a grain of salt, I am no expert on Mormon doctrine.) But as I understand it, they become 'gods.' They do not participate in the divine nature of the One God, which is a union through love, not by a multiplication of 'gods'.
Sorry, I have to duck out now. I'm still in the midst of a big writing project.
My Greek is not honed to perfection and I'm an old codger, so I hope that has some meaning for you.
That link is to hebrew not Greek
That is a metaphorical body ...not the physical /spiritual body ...on the other hand He promises to indwell the saved ...... He will never leave us.. He lives in me..
Have you read all of those links, including the page two list? Are you in agreement with what these assert regarding the efficacy and essential nature of baptism, as defined by the Catechism?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.