Irish Bishop: Consider Married Priesthood, Female Deacons

Catholic Culture ^ | 10/11/15

[marshmallow]

An Irish bishop said that he will ask his brother bishops to institute a commission to study the possible ordination of married men to the priesthood and women to the diaconate.

“I think the other bishops would be open to the idea of a discussion and we are reaching a situation where we have to look at all the options possible,” Bishop Leo O’Reilly of Kilmore told The Irish Catholic.

Kilmore bishop wants Church to consider married priests

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

It is not consistent with anything.

The Bible only states that Mary was a virgin at the time of her conception of Jesus at which time she was betrothed to Joseph.

The Bible does not state that Mary and Joseph practiced celibacy. The Bible does mention Jesus’s brothers and sisters.

It is therefore reasonable to assume that Mary and Joseph had loving marriage and shared physical intimacy. A gift from God not to be denied to anyone, certainly not Mary and Joseph. The Lord commands us to be fruitful and multiply. And Mary and joseph did just that.

[Biggirl]

Well the first Pope was a married man, Peter.

[Ransomed]

Could be, but then every single one of them are supposedly right about it. I just can’t see it. You could ask 1000 pro-aborts to have a debate about the discipline and every single one of them would be against it.

FReegards

[Petrosius]

We have gone over this before. The married priests of the tenth century were in violation to what was already long-standing church law.

[Petrosius]

But celibacy is not an end to itself.

Permanent celibacy was commended by both Jesus and Paul.

[Petrosius]

As I have stated, since the clergy was married for the first ten centuries of Church history, it is the more traditional position.

False statement. Celibacy was the practice in the west from Apostolic times. Exceptions were in violation to this ancient norm.

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

Jesus NEVER once said celibacy was a prerequisite for service in the priesthood.

Paul NEVER once said celibacy was a prerequisite for service in the priesthood.

NO ONE in the Bible ever said celibacy was a prerequisite for service in the priesthood.

Paul in fact states its OK to be married and serve in the clergy. May I please again refer you to 1 Timothy 3:1-7.

Celibacy is a Church requirement. Not a Biblical requirement. Priests were in fact married men in the Bible from Aaron on down. God’s plan is for Holy Matrimony and to be fruitful and multiply. The Church instituted celibacy to have more control over its priests.

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

Wrong as usual.

“The first Pope, St. Peter the Apostle, was married. So were four other Popes. Eleven more Popes were the sons of other Popes or clergy. Celibacy was optional for priests until it was voted a Vatican rule at the First Latern Council of 1123.”

New York Daily News 3/13/2015

Further suggested reading: A Complete History of the Catholic Church to Present Day. By Rev. John Laux (A Catholic priest btw):

“It is said on good authority that, in the tenth and eleventh centuries, half of the priests, in some countries more than half,...lived openly as fathers of families.”

In many countries celibacy was never taken seriously. In the East where Orthodox Church held sway, priests have always been permitted to be married. Even in western countries like England, in the 16th century you had people like Cardinal Wolsey, the most powerful Catholic prelate in the country living quite openly with his common law wife and two children.

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

The Synod of Elvira was held in Spain, and the canons it passed were limited to that country.

The Vatican did not add celibacy to its canon until the First Lateran Council in 1123. And it took the Church many centuries after that to gain strong enforcement. In some places compulsory clerical celibacy has never been imposed or enforced or practiced. This is especially true in Eastern Europe and the Middle East.

It is worth mentioning that even though I am not a fan of the current Pope, Francis is on record stating the following with respects to celibacy:

1) Celibacy is viewed by the Church as a discipline, not a dogma or a doctrine.

2) Celibacy was institutionalized many centuries after the founding of the Church.

3) Celibacy is a policy always subject to change.

All true of course stated by His Holiness the Pope no less.

[RobbyS]

The good bishop ignores the experience of the Protestant clergy and indeed, the very notion of priesthood that has sustained the Church for at least fifteen hundred years. That is the notion of the priest as exemplars of virtue. Without this high ideal, what happens to the notion of monogamous marriage? We hear much talk of “love” but what does Christian love mean but sacrificial love? “Love” to the hedonists is just self-love, which is to say loving oneself as God. The only thing that sustains morality then becomes the individual conscience, which is easily preyed upon by our human weaknesses.

[RobbyS]

To be Christlike is to be like the Christ of the Bible. As he was a celibate man, to be as much like Christ las possible, the Priest must be a monk.

[ronnietherocket3]

It is always better to read the Bible than to read into the Bible.

My experience has been that something is called eisegesis when the accuser disagrees and exegesis when the supporter agrees.

There is nothing in the Bible to suggest that Mary and Joseph did not eventually consummate their marriage.

There is nothing to my knowledge that requires Mary to have given birth to other children.

The Marian doctrines were developed much later and have little basis in scripture.

1. So?
2. A better statement would be that written evidence for Marian Doctrines comes much later. The doctrine of Sola Scriptura is heresy in Catholic Christianity and Orthodox Christianity.

[ronnietherocket3]

I seem to remember that to the extent we know, these women were “ordained” but in a different way than men, but I could be wrong. I was reminded by a priest friend that there are a few deaconesses in women’s monasteries in Greece but they don’t fulfill any sacramental role. He isn’t really sure what they do. He suspects that the Russian ones are the same. Maybe a member of the ROC here knows, if there are any. Most Orthodox have left this site over the years.

There was/is a Catholic Religious order that due to the remoteness of their monasteries (uncertain on the precise term) had a role similar to deacon for their female houses. This was due to being uncertain on when a priest would be available for Mass. Instead they had/have communion celebrations (similar to Mass but with pre-consecrated hosts) and the deaconess would do the Gospel Reading. Maybe the deaconesses in the Greek Monasteries fill a similar role.

[ronnietherocket3]

Women don’t conceive in the womb,

• Where did 1st cent. Romans or Greeks (or Jews) believe a child was conceived?
• How was womb defined in the 1st cent? Was it defined in a manner that would include it? This would mean that the definition of womb has changed slightly over the course of a few centuries.
• Is it possible for a woman to conceive in the uterus? This could just be an possible but unlikely scenario?

I am fairly certain the statement that women do not conceive in the womb is a statement that is only possible due scientific discoveries made in the 19th/20th century.

[Kolokotronis]

“Maybe the deaconesses in the Greek Monasteries fill a similar role.”

I think you are right, now that you mention it.

[kearnyirish2]

The Catholic Church will never have female priests; the most liberal Popes will not even discuss it. If they were ever foolish enough to attempt to do this, they have no claim to being rooted in Scripture, and will go the way of the other “christian” denominations that have done so: Empty pews, renting out facilities for support groups and such. Basically, they will become “community activists” instead of faith-based organizations...

[Clemenza]

That has already happened in France. The RCC in France is essentially an NGO with lots of vacant real estate.

[kearnyirish2]

It is happening here in the northeastern US as well; NJ and NY are closing/consolidating parishes (and have already closed so many schools).

[Gamecock]

Except of course the first Pope was married.

[RobbyS]

So were many bishops in the early Church, but the rule was if he was widowed, he did not remarry. Christianity, unlike rabbinical Judaism, placed a very high value on celibacy. That’s because it was a missionary faith. Paul spent his whole time”in the field.” Andhe give sue some very practical advice on the demands on a man who is always on the road. Hard to give it 100% if you have a family. Which is why after the third century monasticism became such a big thing in the Church. For the next 1000 years it was regarded as the perfect way to serve Christ. Marriage brings obligations, which of course, most men, including Christians are willing to take on. But the monk, and the celibate priest who imitates him, is obligated first to the Church. The Greek Church requires the bishop to be celibate. It allows a married man to be ordained but not to be a bishop. And there is that practical thing. Hard for potential priests to find someone to share the clerical state. Which is whyt there are many celibate Greek priests.