Posted on 05/22/2015 4:54:44 PM PDT by OK Sun
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>> “So no attacking there?” <<
He never attacks what he invented.
A house divided against itself cannot stand. Yeshua said that, remember?
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>> “Anyone who can’t see the difference before and after Christ’s death and resurrection is to be pitied.” <<
Strawman argument.
Everything about Yeshua was prophesied by Moses, including grace for those that repent.
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>> we have seen the validity of your comments “nowhere to be found in scripture”. <<
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Then why do you wrest with the scripture so persistently?
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So you repost the very scripture that shows that the apostasy and the coming of the man of sin are one event with the casting out of Satan!
Do you somehow suppose that it will change if it is posted often enough?
Paul was confident that what he presented to the Thessalonians proved that a coming before it happened was impossible,and their fear that a resurrection had happened was unfounded.
Why are you not?
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That does not say that they ascended to heaven, and John 3:13 and the Revelation absolutely assert that they did not.
Paul’s epistles, Matthew 24, and the Revelation all have every believer being raised at one event, at the last trump, in a twinkling of an eye.
Revelation 20 speaks of one resurrection of the blessed, and one resurrection unto judgement 1000 years later.
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>> “It’s a physical resurrection where terrestrial bodies will be changed into celestial bodies” <<
For those that are alive and remain, yes, but the dead have no bodies to change, and it doesn’t say that they do.
You have added something that is not there in the text.
In this again you do err. You are not in the truth, es. What happens to the two witnesses who are killed and left int he street for 3 and 1/2 days? What happened to Lazarus, the friend of Jesus? What happened to ... oh, never mind. When the good seed is sown, satan is quick to come and snatch it up so it cannot take root. You’re posts are doing your best to snatch up the truth and replace it with Rood ness.
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>> “What happened to Lazarus, the friend of Jesus?” <<
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Eventually he died again and went into the grave.
>> “What happens to the two witnesses who are killed and left int he street for 3 and 1/2 days?” <<
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Their resurrection comes exactly at the end of the trib, and marks the point where we also are to be taken up.
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Your reading comprehension is lacking. Read Revelations again, es, you do err grossly this time. The two witnesses are raptured while the world watches. I would say you’re hopeless, but your vigor in posting mistakes is evidence that you haven’t reach the laodicean stage yet ...
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Perhaps it is time to stop with your Rood ness and go directly to the scriptures with an open heart?
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ; for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith." Romans 1:16,17.
Why do you never seem understand that the scriptures that you post in reply always seem to prove my points?
When the voice from heaven said “come up hither” it was making the high priest’s traditional call to those that observed the appearance of the New moon at the day of trumpets.
That was the beginning of the First Resurrection.
Understanding the feasts is understanding all of his plan.
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I have no great problem with the thoughts of your post 293, but in part what it communicates to me is an apparent void in understanding the ancient scriptures.
Yehova never placed a divide between the people for his name, and those that would willingly sojourn with them, so what you perceived as being new after the resurrection is in reality something that began when Jacob was renamed Israel.
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Are you sure your name is not Jacob?
It’s always interesting to discuss this with a preterist because they see all of it happening in that first generation Christian Church. It is sort of ridiculous for them to say so with 2 Thess 2 on record for it clearly says there’ll be a ‘falling away first’. There hadn’t even been a ‘coming to’ that had happened yet in order for there to have been a falling away.
The details of the scripture are important.
There is absolutely zero necessity in the Greek for these to be one event, and in fact, it says in actual word order, and therefore thought order: “ except comes a falling away first, and be revealed, the man of sin..”
There is the idea there of the falling away, an event over time, being necessary to usher in the revealing of the man of sin.
Galatians 4: …3So also we, while we were children, were held in bondage under the elemental things of the world. 4But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.…
Redemption did not happen until Jesus. Abraham's faith was counted as righteousness, but it was a faith that looked forward to the redemption provided by Jesus. (Rom 4, Galations 3)
Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high. As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men: So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider. Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Do you have a problem with Jacob ?
Jacob was a twister ...
The falling away Paul invoked to the Thessalonians was a far future event that has not yet come, as it is the one that is the result of the casting out of Satan.
The “coming to” began in the far distant past, as it was evidenced in Adam’s son Able.
For the Thessalonians, what Paul presented was one event that prevented any resurrection from happening.
That was the sole subject of Paul’s second letter to them; their fear that the resurrection had already happened.
Paul gave them the reason why it was impossible. That reason still applies today, and will until the midpoint of Daniel’s 70th week. That is when the obstacles Paul listed will suddenly be gone. That is also when those that have “watched” as commanded will be able to count out the days of the feasts to know what will happen and when it will happen.
For those that “will not watch,” they will suffer the condition Yeshua called out in Revelation 3:3 “I will come as a thief...”
The general falling away had already come in their time due to “the Mystery of Iniquity” as Paul had noted.
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