Posted on 05/14/2015 6:59:34 PM PDT by NRx
The Roman Catholic Diocese of San Jose has a traveling LGBT mass called “All Are Welcome” (see a news report about it here; the reporter enthuses that this could be a first step in changing Catholic teaching). I found out about it in this comment from a reader:...
...If I were still Catholic and lived in that Diocese, I honestly don’t know what I would do. I could not go to mass in diocesan parishes that so clearly and even proudly defied authoritative church teaching any more than I could go to an Arian mass back in the day. And I don’t know how I could in good conscience encourage someone to come into communion with the Catholic Church knowing that the struggle to achieve ordinary holiness would require having to battle (however quietly) priests and church authorities over what is basic truth...
...I would like to ask the orthodox Catholics (not liberal Catholics, not Catholic dissenters, not ex-Catholics) in the room what you would do if you lived in that diocese. What advice would you give that reader on how to hold on now that she has been disillusioned? If you were to evangelize non-Catholics in that diocese, how would you go about it?
Currently it stinks from the head.
This is from a Catholic by the way.
The Roman Catholic Diocese of San Jose has a traveling LGBT mass called “All Are Welcome”
Well Jesus does welcome all. They are welcomed to come forth and repent from their sins and accept Jesus as their savior. Unfortunately that is not what these folks agenda is. They want to be welcomed and have their sin accepted.
True.
Having read a few de-conversion stories of priests and nuns who have left the Church, I think for a long time we had people becoming priests/religious for the wrong reasons. E.g., some of the stories were, “I became a priest because everyone in my parish told me I look so holy up at the altar during mass and that I would make a great priest.” This I believe is a horrible reason to become a priest. Another story was that a priest became an alcoholic after the transition from the TLM to NO (this was held as evidence against the NO). I think there is a reasonable question as to whether that person should have been a priest to begin with.
I have noticed that a large number of orthodox Catholics/Orthodox Christians tend to evaluate who is/would make a good priest on the basis of which priests speak to them, not which priests speak well to the majority of people in the pews who have lots of struggles in their day-to-day lives. E.g., alcohol, co-workers, bosses, traffic, misbehaving children, the IRS/DMV/Post Office, an illness, burdensome union regs, et cetera. For some people, trying to pray the rosary daily can be a burden, for others, praying all 20 mysteries in one day is easy.
Concerning Vatican II, I think the Church was in terrible shape before VII just gave a lot of crazy people an excuse to do something they already wanted to do and would have eventually done anyway (or raised people to do).
Want to be a faithful Catholic who grows in Holiness? Attend Mass and receive the Eucharist. Bad homily, bad theology or suspect diocesan practices? Not my problem. My only problem? Are you a validly ordained Catholic priest authorized to confect the Eucharist?
Pray the Rosary. Do the Corporal and Spiritual Works of Mercy.
You do these things and the children will most likely follow your example. If not then you've done all that you can and the rest is up to the Holy Spirit and their conscience.
Active Catholic here....still sinning too unfortunately....
Jesus picked Judas, who turned bad. The Apostles...Popes pick bishops...some of whom have turned bad....they have picked priests....some of whom have turned bad.
God calls us and some of those that respond, go bad. Free will and temptation.
We have faith because FGod allowed us to...some of us free tun bad. Doesn’t mean the Church, the Bride of Christ is bad, just that we really DO have free will and the devil really does get to test us by God’s design to choose Him over satan.
So I will continue the Faith, continue the Virtue of Hope, go to confession and beg for His Unfathomable Mercy, and continue to do my best to example to such people that Jesus loves them and wants them to abide by His UNCHANGING covenant....the unchanging but ever more beautifully understood teachings of the Magesterium. B16 did a lot of the added beauty, as did the previous ones and as will Francis.
As the priest said on EWTN today....READ V2, don’t believe what anybody SAYS was/is V2.....priests and bishops fail their God sometimes and always need our prayers and love all the same.
“Pray the Rosary. Do the Corporal and Spiritual Works of Mercy.”
Exactly correct. The San Jose diocese has a rough road with poor leadership. The local Catholics are strong and loyal and go to church no matter who is saying mass or what is played for music.
Welcome to my world.
Vatican II has brought nothing but bad news. Reading Vatican II doesn’t make things better unless one reads it in isolation (which is what I think others are encouraging others to do). A Catholic needs to also read pre-Vatican II documents. When one does that, one sees that reading Vatican II doesn’t help them at all.
The problem with reading Vatican II in isolation is that most of us who read it have already been infected with Modernism for decades. Therefore, when read in isolation, Vatican II looks just fine. Maybe just a bit ambiguous but otherwise just fine.
When one reads the clear Catholic writings of pre-Vatican II popes and saints, suddenly Vatican II doesn’t look or sound so Catholic anymore. Then a faithful Catholic is left in a quandary and has to grapple with how the heck this even happened. Anyone who can look at the post Vatican II church and still say nothing has changed needs a reality check. I get it though. It’s no fun.
Excellent point, pius.
"...The documents of Vatican II are thus flawed documents because of their deliberate ambiguity, lack of precision, countless omissions, and because of the novel concepts advanced..."
http://www.oltyn.org/page8/page44/Lefebvre-VaticanII.html
Cardinal Kasper has confirmed that "in many places" the documents were engineered to convey positions that were at variance with other positions contained therein.
"In many places, [the Council Fathers] had to find compromise formulas, in which, often, the positions of the majority are located immediately next to those of the minority, designed to delimit them. Thus, the conciliar texts themselves have a huge potential for conflict, open the door to a selective reception in either direction." (Cardinal Walter Kasper, L'Osservatore Romano, April 12, 2013)
http://unamsanctamcatholicam.blogspot.com/2013/04/kasper-admits-intentional-ambiguity.html
"The Desolate City: Revolution in the Catholic Church", by Anne Roche Muggeridge", is an astute analysis of the modernist assault by conciliar progressivist revolutionaries (some who had been previously censured for their heretical theories) and the destructive consequences of the "Rhine Group" offensive. (Interestingly, the present Rhine Group -- led by Kasper, Marx et al -- is also in the vanguard of current attacks on doctrine.)
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2237573.The_Desolate_City
The problem with reading Vatican II in isolation is that most of us who read it have already been infected with Modernism for decades.
Very true. The antidote is to read the Vatican II documents alongside the writings of pre-Vatican II Popes.
"Popes Against Modern Errors: 16 Famous Papal Documents"
"In 1789, the French Revolution took place and launched a host of religious, political and social errors which the Popes for over 160 years afterwards wrote and legislated against. Yet most of these errors have spread and today have filtered down to the common man... with the result that most people now take for granted many fundamental assumptions that are positively false! But almost from the beginning of these errors, the Popes spoke out as with one voice, inveighing against them. Today, as we see these errors bearing evil fruit, many thoughtful Catholics are returning to those Papal documents which condemned these modern errors, to examine what the Popes have said all along about them. Here, in one handy volume, are the best and most famous of those papal denunciations..."
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2346449.Popes_Against_Modern_Errors
Subjecting children to irreverence and bad theology ought to be avoided, as it is harmful to their spiritual formation.
All support should be withdrawn from any organizations which seek to undermine the teaching of the Church, which are ambiguous about it, or which neglect it entirely. Such support, or even the semblance of such support, can be gravely misinterpreted. Special attention should be given to the practice of scheduling religious services and to the use of Church buildings by these groups, including the facilities of Catholic schools and colleges. To some, such permission to use Church property may seem only just and charitable; but in reality it is contradictory to the purpose for which these institutions were founded, it is misleading and often scandalous.The 1986 Letter is the last word on the subject of these dissident Masses, and as such is still controlling.
The article does not indicate whether the All Are Welcome Mass are being held in churches or Church-held facilities. If they are, complaints need to be initiated until the illicit practice ceases.
If, however, the diocese is in compliance with Church teaching as articulated in the 1986 Letter, then this should be clearly and unabiguously conveyed to all concerned parishoners.
I would tell that person to read the Letter of St Athanasius during the Arian crisis:
"May God console you! ... What saddens you ... is the fact that others have occupied the churches by violence, while during this time you are on the outside. It is a fact that they have the premises – but you have the Apostolic Faith. They can occupy our churches, but they are outside the true Faith. You remain outside the places of worship, but the Faith dwells within you. Let us consider: what is more important, the place or the Faith? The true Faith, obviously. Who has lost and who has won in the struggle – the one who keeps the premises or the one who keeps the Faith? True, the premises are good when the Apostolic Faith is preached there; they are holy if everything takes place there in a holy way ...
"You are the ones who are happy; you who remain within the Church by your Faith, who hold firmly to the foundations of the Faith which has come down to you from Apostolic Tradition. And if an execrable jealousy has tried to shake it on a number of occasions, it has not succeeded. They are the ones who have broken away from it in the present crisis. No one, ever, will prevail against your Faith, beloved Brothers. And we believe that God will give us our churches back some day.
"Thus, the more violently they try to occupy the places of worship, the more they separate themselves from the Church. They claim that they represent the Church; but in reality, they are the ones who are expelling themselves from it and going astray. Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."
What we have today is WORSE than the Arian crisis, but we can look to that period in the Church's history for support.
The key is to hold on to the Traditional Catholic Faith, not the Faith as it is presented post Vatican II. One will lose the Faith if they do the latter.
Well, darn. I just attended mass at St. Joseph’s in downtown San Jose. I loved it. Saw nothing of this at all. Heard nothing odd either.
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