Posted on 05/09/2015 7:44:31 AM PDT by RnMomof7
LOL. it only took 112 posts for someone to mention the magic underwear, when it was the first thing that I thought of. I wore the scapular when I was in grade school, but it has been so long since I left the Catholic Church, that I just don't recall why I never wore it in my catholic high school, or anytime after that either.
Sounds like you are wedded to a fundamentalist, literal reading of scripture, and that you have a version which you believe to be infallible. You deny that there are conflicts within scripture. Try Google.
Do you know why Matthew, Mark and Luke are called the synoptic gospels? Because John is so different.
If parables are not allegories (despite the generally accepted definitions of theses words), do you believe that Jesus was actually concerned with raising grain, grapes, fishing and sheep herding, rather than making (allegorical, non-literal) teaching points about human behavior? And if you insist on literal fundamentalism, isn’t there all of the Old Testament genocide, slavery, rape and torture to reinstate?
People absorbed by such dogmatic interpretation are likely to get sidetracked into quibbling over doctrinal differences of interpretation and generate schisms within the Christian community, rather than focusing on bringing everyone together and improving their holiness and happiness.
The point is the spirit of the law, not the letter of the law, when it comes to spiritual realm - a very central message of Jesus to the legalistic and ritualistic religious leaders of his days on Earth.
The fundamentalist muslims of ISIS and al Quaeda are derisively called takfiri by other muslims. Takfiri means “those who declare others to be heretics”. Anyone who varies from their reading of scripture (and the rules they use to interpret it) they attack as heretics - kind of like another apparently fundamentalist poster accused me of blasphemy, for using the word “interpret” in reference to understanding scripture.
I caught that too.
Yes...I do believe I've heard that before.
Does their message contradict? Is Jesus the Savior? Did He die on a cross? Was He resurrected on the third day? a simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson, as told by Jesus in the Gospels.
Parable: a simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson, as told by Jesus in the Gospels.
And if you insist on literal fundamentalism, isn’t there all of the Old Testament genocide, slavery, rape and torture to reinstate?
Wow...I have no reply to this statement that has no support in the New Testament.
Haha good one
“So then you believe that the Holy Spirit does not impart the correct meaning of the scriptures?”
I believe that is possible, but that we must be responsible for making reasoned judgements, based in consistent morality.
If we rely solely on the Holy Spirit clarifying meaning, then what happens to those for whom it is not doing so? Is the scripture then useless? Does God pre-determine who will receive correct guidance, and the rest be damned? Does the Holy Spirit always give perfect clarity? To everyone? How can one be sure that one’s feelings of the Holy Spirit’s guidance are valid? Won’t unscrupulous people falsely claim the Spirit’s guidance to benefit themselves?
Others on this thread criticize the brown scapula as a talisman or amulet, implying that it is a base regression to magical thinking. Well relying on an external spirit for guidance (control even) could similarly be compared with non-Christian beliefs and practices.
My argument is that we (endowed with intellects and free will) are responsible for our own actions, and the development of our own characters. Scripture has a wealth to offer in this endeavor, but it is not a simplistic or mechanistic process of either literal fundamentalism, or completely subjective revelation.
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>> “I believe that is possible, but that we must be responsible for making reasoned judgements, based in consistent morality.” <<
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I couldn’t generate a better definition of humanism if I tried for eternity!
That is exactly what the word of God calls idolatry.
I’ll stick with reading the word.
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I am a proud, charter member of the grammar police. 😂😎😃😆😀🇵🇭
Bump
Not to get off the subject too much, but I understand the plan of salvation perfectly. What I do not know for sure about, is what about infants? I hope someone will start a thread about it. I would like to hear a bunch of other opinions.
Absolute hogwash.....
The character that Catholics have made her into is THEIR Lady, not ours and perhaps you can accuse someone who is Catholic of disrespecting her and that makes them not a Catholic, but Catholicism is NOT the measure of Christianity.
The only people treating her ill as the ones who are making far more of her than Jesus, The Father, or the Holy Spirit, ever did, and attributing to her the characteristics of God Himself.
We are NOT to be respecters of persons, according to James the Catholic's favorite NT author. By putting people up on pedestals as they do, they are showing favoritism and being a lawbreaker.
James 2:1-13 My brothers, show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory. For if a man wearing a gold ring and fine clothing comes into your assembly, and a poor man in shabby clothing also comes in, and if you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say, “You sit here in a good place,” while you say to the poor man, “You stand over there,” or, “Sit down at my feet,” have you not then made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him? But you have dishonored the poor man. Are not the rich the ones who oppress you, and the ones who drag you into court? Are they not the ones who blaspheme the honorable name by which you were called?
If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty. For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
The only ones calling others *heretics* are the Catholics who throw that label around with reckless abandon towards anyone who dares to disagree with CATHOLICISM.
Pure speculation on my part, but I think if God could have sacrificed Mary, He would have. My opinion is, that sacrificing Jesus, was the last thing He really wanted to do, but the only other alternative, which He could have done, was to let every mortal person, who has ever lived, spend eternity in Hell. He chose to sacrifice Jesus. It was the only way to redeem the human race.
Now the perfect irony is that the Nazis were not the first to demand the Jews wear that yellow star... You might want to look into that.
Scripture is silent on that. Some mysteries belong to God alone
Never heard of such a thing.
Is this kind of like Mormon underwear?
Refer someone to a Caucus thread?
What is the author of that article trying to hide if it requires protection?
Without quibbling further over the definition of “allegory”, it is interesting that you have “no reply to this statement (all of the Old Testament genocide, slavery, rape and torture) that has no support in the New Testament.”
Is your view the New Testament completely supersedes the Old Testament, and that it is therefore not scripture? There goes the ten commandments. Including the tenth commandment, which warns not to covet your neighbor’s slaves. Perhaps you missed that, due to one of those translation/interpretation errors that we discussed, because the politically correct term “manservant” might have been used instead of slave. Both there are many references to how slaves are to be distinctly legally treated in the Old Testament.
Oh, and lots of matter of fact references in the New Testament as well, typically translated as Maid or servant or such, but context often clarifies their ownership or being sold. Ephesians 6:5-9: “Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters” 1 Timothy 6:1-3 “Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor. And in Luke 12:45-48, Jesus presents an allegory (oops, Parable) of a slave and his master to demonstrate the relationship between a person and God.
And that is just a passing examination of slavery. There is plenty of scripture on genocide, rape, torture and such; far too much to list - literally thousands of morally questionable references. You just have to have your own moral compass, guided by the principles of Christian teaching, rather than by literal adherence to every word.
“The only ones calling others *heretics* are the Catholics who throw that label around with reckless abandon”
I said that I was accused of blasphemy. It was in post 119 by editor-surveyor, where he quoted me, and then leveled the charge - extracted for your convenience:
>> “To be rigidly certain of an interpretation of something written thousands of years ago...” <<
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Those that speak of “interpretation” blaspheme the Holy Spirit.
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