Posted on 05/05/2015 4:01:37 PM PDT by Faith Presses On
For those who hold to traditional Christian theology, explaining what happened to Jesus on the cross doesn’t take long: Humans are sinful…sin makes God angry…God requires a sacrifice to quell God’s anger…God sent his son Jesus to be that sacrifice. So, on the cross, God killed (or perhaps just permitted) the execution of Jesus in order to satisfy God’s anger against sinful humanity. Got it? Good. That settles it.
Actually, that doesn’t settle it if you’re Tony Jones, a theologian and author of “Did God Kill Jesus? Searching for Love in History’s Most Famous Execution.” He argues that notions of a God who demanded and perhaps participated in the gruesome execution of an innocent Jesus is largely an invention of the medieval church that became enshrined in orthodox Christianity, and is not what the Bible actually teaches. Here we discuss what he thinks Christians have gotten wrong and how he understands the cross event differently.
(snip)
RNS: You argue against the notion that God demanded the death of his son to quell his wrath, but don’t you admit that there are at least some Bible passages that seem to teach this?
TJ: The Bible is not univocal when it comes to the cross. Every view of the crucifixion has verses and passages that support it. That’s probably why the early church never convened a council to decide once-and-for-all how to understand the cross, as it did for the natures of Christ, the Trinity, and the books of the Bible. There actually are not any passages that explicitly say that God’s wrath could only be satisfied by his perfect son’s death, but you can string together a few verses from various places to make that argument.
(Excerpt) Read more at jonathanmerritt.religionnews.com ...
“He argues that notions of a God who demanded and perhaps participated in the gruesome execution of an innocent Jesus is largely an invention of the medieval church that became enshrined in orthodox Christianity, and is not what the Bible actually teaches.”
It’s amazing that the medieval church could somehow time travel and insert allusions to this idea throughout the Old Testament, such as the sacrifice God asked of Abraham, or the entire Passover ritual symbolism. Where has the Vatican been hiding their time machine?
>> Scripture twisting from beginning to end.
You got that exactly right, FRiend.
Goes on all the time but Christians do not turn to violence. Draw a cartoon of Mohammed though, and Muslims kill. Yet who do liberals bash? Christians. Matter of fact, I would go so far as to say liberals consistently bash Christians and DEFEND Muslims even after a Muslim kills or attempts to kill.
This is hate speech. Will the southern poverty law center declare this guy a hater...../s
Political Activism[edit]
In 2010 Jones encouraged Minnesota clergy to stop performing legal marriages, as a show of solidarity with LGBT people who could not be legally married in the state at that time.[28] Lisa Miller of the Washington Post questioned whether Jones’ position was influenced by his acrimonious divorce from his first wife, and “a wish to avoid legal entanglements the second time around”.[29] Miller also criticized the likely outcomes of Jones’ position, calling it impractical, “muddled and retrograde”.[29] Miller’s concerns were that an absence of legal safeguards was “bad for the financially vulnerable partner (historically the woman) and for children”, “a promise to God will not make a deadbeat parent pay child support.”[29] Marriage historian Stephanie Coontz also criticized Jones’ refusal to issue state marriage licences because it “penalizes heterosexual couples who are coming to the church without actually winning anything for same-sex couples”.[29]
Source: Wikipedia
I have it from an expert that Jesus was executed because of taxes....
Jesus went to the cross willingly.
God didn’t “execute” anyone.
Jesus said, "I and the Father are One."
This BOZO forgets this. . . and separates Jesus from God. . . and thereby makes His death meaningless and pointless agony for no reason except cruelty. That is why this Jones character is not a true Christian or even a Theologian. He does not understand his subject matter at all.
The author better hire security. One of those bitter clingers is bound to try and blow him up or slice off his head.
“...participated in the gruesome execution...”
Or the wholesale slaughter of all of the “ittes” (Hittites, Jebusites, etc.) when the Jews took Israel.
I’m no expert, but I wonder if by Jesus dieing on the cross to save all of mankind, God’s wrath on various nations and peoples seen in the OT has been suspended until the end days?
The standard interpretation of Abraham/Isaac, however, is that the Jewish (Biblical/Christian) God does NOT want human sacrifices...like so many of the pagan tribes practiced.
Yes, God asked Abraham to start the process (as a ‘test of Abe’s faith in God’) but ... in direct contradiftion to all those other ‘gods’ -— the one true God stopped everything before a single drop of human blood was shed.
Citing Abraham/Isaac as an indicator that God would ever want human sacrifies again is, respectfully, a patent misreading. IMHO, and without any prejudice to upholding Jesus’ sacrifice 1200+ years later.
Just my 2 cents worth. I will shut up before anyone sends the Roman Legions out to crufify me over this.
Over and Out!
Liberal lies and garbage.
Nah, he's just one of the reasons that young men in the West find reasons to join ISIS. . . that the Churches in the West teach pablum.
Liberals call God’s Law, God’s wrath.
But the thing they call “wrath” is the result of people’s own actions.
It’s like saying the law of gravity represents God’s wrath because if you ignore it, it will kill you. This is the position of a child, or an insane person.
What Jesus did was slam Himself against millions, even billions, of people going over the cliff, knocking them away from it, and taking their fall Himself, saving them.
Oh and BTW, He didn’t, ultimately, die. He just took away everyone’s else’s death.
Some people see a gift in that. Some people don’t.
No, it’s because they can’t find jobs! Like, duh!
Also, a bit off topic, but thanks for all of the Shroud info. I really enjoy it.
I appreciate your appreciation. . . grin.
People like this Tony Jones fellow, know they can get away with this kind of spin on the crucifixion, because most today have been dumbed down by liberals/progressives and the general apostate spirit of our days. Sad to say, they don’t have a clue as to whether or not the Bible agrees with Jones.
Ho-hum...another “theologian” who can’t understand God’s holiness and how love and wrath relate.
It’s all about love...love...love.
For starters, Jonathan Merritt is a homosexual, so his choice of subjects, theologians and authors to write his columns about is suspect.
http://baptistnews.com/ministry/people/item/7654-jonathan-merritt-admits-to-gay-relationship
As for Tony Jones,the first Google entry is “Tony Jones - Theological Provocateur”.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Tony+Jones%2C&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
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