Posted on 04/25/2015 10:33:08 AM PDT by RnMomof7
You’ve written me a 1,780 - word essay. I just want you to know I appreciate your efforts, but I really can’t respond to it in a comprehensive way.
You asked me to explain what I mean when I say that "man is not completely contemptible." I mean that God created humans to be very noble beings ---“You have made him a little less than a god, You have crowned man with glory and honor”, says the Psalmist --- and even sinners still have a residual dignity simply because, despite our offenses and deformities, we are still loved by God and bear the marks of His good creation.
Everything we have is from God, and properly gives Him glory. And if we have any glory, it is because God glorifies us, due to the magnificence of His generosity.
You say “No one is to be treated like Him when it comes to the things that belong to GOD alone” and that is true forever, Amen. But that does not negate the fact that, as Peter said (2 Peter 1:4) ”He has bestowed on us the precious and very great promises, so that through them you may come to share in the divine nature”.
This again is due to the magnificence of His generosity, not our power, cleverness or piety. How could we work for and earn things we cannot even imagine?
”When someone claims to be saved by faith and by works, they are claiming that they are partly saved by Jesus …and partly saved by themselves .” I don’t think this accusation is true. You’ll have to take this up with St. James, who wrote it (James 2:20) - ”Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?” --- yes, take it up with him, and with the Holy Spirit who inspired him to write it.
Frankly, I wouldn't have written that. I hope you won’t get touchy about that “ignoramus” part: that was St. James, not me.
Please forgive me any deficiencies in my writing. Glory be to God in all things. I wish you well and pray for you, Faith Presses On.
Go ahead. Embrace and defend him.
But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
Are you unable to define what you were asking? Was it indeed intended as a trap?
And the children of Israel set forward, and pitched in the plains of Moab on this side Jordan by Jericho. And Balak the son of Zippor saw all that Israel had done to the Amorites. And Moab was sore afraid of the people, because they were many: and Moab was distressed because of the children of Israel. And Moab said unto the elders of Midian, Now shall this company lick up all that are round about us, as the ox licketh up the grass of the field. And Balak the son of Zippor was king of the Moabites at that time. He sent messengers therefore unto Balaam the son of Beor to Pethor, which is by the river of the land of the children of his people, to call him, saying, Behold, there is a people come out from Egypt: behold, they cover the face of the earth, and they abide over against me: Come now therefore, I pray thee, curse me this people; for they are too mighty for me: peradventure I shall prevail, that we may smite them, and that I may drive them out of the land: for I wot that he whom thou blessest is blessed, and he whom thou cursest is cursed. And the elders of Moab and the elders of Midian departed with the rewards of divination in their hand; and they came unto Balaam, and spake unto him the words of Balak. And he said unto them, Lodge here this night, and I will bring you word again, as the Lord shall speak unto me: and the princes of Moab abode with Balaam. And God came unto Balaam, and said, What men are these with thee? And Balaam said unto God, Balak the son of Zippor, king of Moab, hath sent unto me, saying, Behold, there is a people come out of Egypt, which covereth the face of the earth: come now, curse me them; peradventure I shall be able to overcome them, and drive them out. And God said unto Balaam, Thou shalt not go with them; thou shalt not curse the people: for they are blessed.
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
Sometimes you post the oddest responses I have ever seen.
Good day again, Mrs Don-O.
I know you said you didn’t have much time the other day, but if you would care to respond to the rest of what I wrote in the future, that would be welcome. Certainly these matters have been important and will remain so, so their relevance doesn’t expire.
On what you wrote about man’s glory, again it’s vague. You haven’t gotten to its implications, and spelled out what it has to do with your arguments. Apparently it is to justify some things, but what, and especialy, how?
Posting here has shown me that even where evangelicals and Catholics read the same Bible passage, it usually means radically different things to us. The Bible seems to be a cafeteria to Catholics. We know John 6 is a disputed chapter, for example, but though I’ve tried to get Catholics here to discuss verses 1-29, not one has, or what’s more, even acknowledged my request to do so. Isn’t John 1-29 Sacred Scripture too? Catholics here completely write it off.
So, too, with many passages on faith and works. You say I have an issue with James. I don’t have any issues with his passages on faith and works. And as you must know, it’s in no way a new thing to me for Catholics to bring up James 2. But I can’t understand why Catholics believe we evangelicals don’t hold to James 2, or just write that off ourselves. It seems to me it’s a matter of seeing your faults in other people. We have in no way ignored James. What he writes is God’s Word. But again, Catholics seem to write off the passages on faith and grace and what they mean, and pitting the James 2 passages against them and choosing them rather than the faith and grace passages. For Bible-believing Christians, we have to take into consideration *all* of the Bible’s great many passages on the subject. Which ones do we have the authority to ignore, and why should we?
So we see in the Bible that there is most definitely a message of grace; in fact, a strong message, that holds that salvation is by God’s mercy, not our works. It is a crucial message because understanding and accepting it leads to restoring us to our proper relationship with God. And further, both Paul and James write of how people were abusing the message of grace. If there was not such a message they were teaching, then they would not have had a need to say, as they both do, that the grace and faith message does not mean that how one lives doesn’t matter. Paul wrote on that, “God forbid!” What James wrote too is to set people straight. And recall, this was addressed to people in a world that hadn’t been influenced by two thousand years of Christianity. People were still praying to trees and emperors and making statues of their gods at the time.
On other thing about justification by works. Its spirit is well captured here in the words of Michael Bloomberg:
-———” But if he senses that he may not have as much time left as he would like, he has little doubt about what would await him at a Judgment Day. Pointing to his work on gun safety, obesity and smoking cessation, he said with a grin: “I am telling you if there is a God, when I get to heaven I’m not stopping to be interviewed. I am heading straight in. I have earned my place in heaven. It’s not even close.”-———
And coming back around to how evangelicals and Catholics read the same things, even words differently, that does not mean that evangelicals don’t believe in works and their necessity. As another poster brought up here recently, where do Catholics see that evangelicals don’t care about works? How can we be against following God’s commands, as Catholics say we must be, when we’re clearly not against doing so?
Glory be to God in all things, yes, and I wish you well and pray for you, too.
I worked with Sister Rita for two years. Two physicians who were killed in hospital attacks I knew from conferences and visits to their hospital. Two of the five nuns taken out and shot had spent time visiting our mission....I did not personally know one Brother who was killed after witnessing a massacre, but I treated his brother at my hospital. And one Irish nun whose car hit a landmine but survived worked in a public health project with one of our sisters and again visited frequently.
Apparently catholics have no idea how to properly cite the Bible or they chose not to out of arrogance. But as they don't respect it, why should they cite it properly??
These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
Must be talking about catholics.....
He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy.
And most RCs leave due to the overall spiritual deadness of Rome. And they do leave for better pasture, or none at all. Sources below are in small italics, and the up arrow ^ refers to the last referenced source above.
Those who have left Catholicism outnumber those who have joined the Catholic Church by nearly a four-to-one margin. 10.1% have left the Catholic Church after having been raised Catholic, while only 2.6% of adults have become Catholic after having been raised in a different faith. Pew forum, Faith in Flux (April 27, 2009) http://pewforum.org/uploadedfiles/Topics/Religious_Affiliation/fullreport.pdf
4% of Americans raised Catholic are now unaffiliated; 5% are now Protestant. ^
Over 75% of those who left Catholicism attended Mass at least once a week as children, versus 86% having done so who remain Catholics today.^
Regarding reasons for leaving Catholicism, less than 30% of former Catholics agreed that the clergy sexual abuse scandal played a role in their departure. ^
71% of converts from Catholicism to Protestant faith said that their spiritual needs were not being met in Catholicism, with 78% of Evangelical Protestants in particular concurring, versus 43% of those now unaffiliated. ^
Only 23% (20% now evangelical) of all Protestants converts from Catholicism said they were unhappy about Catholicism's teachings on abortion/homosexuality (versus 46% of those now unaffiliated); 23% also expressed disagreement with teaching on divorce/remarriage; 16% (12% now evangelical) were dissatisfied with teachings on birth control, 70% said they found a religion the liked more in Protestantism.
55% of evangelical converts from Catholicism cited dissatisfaction with Catholic teachings about the Bible was a reason for leaving Catholicism, with 46% saying the Catholic Church did not view the Bible literally enough.
81% of all Protestant converts from Catholicism said they enjoyed the service and worship of Protestant faith as a reason for joining a Protestant denomination, with 62% of all Protestants and 74% Evangelicals also saying that they felt God's call to do so. ^
Almost 20% of all Latino American Catholics have left the Roman Catholicism, with 23 percent of second-generation Latino Americans doing so. http://www.baylor.edu/content/services/document.php/33304.pdf
54% of Hispanic Catholics describe themselves as charismatic Christians. http://pewhispanic.org/reports/report.php?ReportID=75
51% of Hispanic Evangelicals are converts, and 43% are former Catholics. ^
82% of Hispanics cite the desire for a more direct, personal experience with God as the main reason for adopting a new faith. Among those who have become evangelicals, 90% say it was a spiritual search for a more direct, personal experience with God was the main reason that drove their conversion. Negative views of Catholicism do not appear to be a major reason for their conversion. ^
The same could be said by NT souls who came to Christ, to the glory of God.
And are offended by people who do.
If you think that’s proper Biblical citation.....then I can’t help you.
OK here is a verse from the bible that Catholics hate. Now, by hate I mean that they must work around it to maintain a narrative that doesn't fit the bible. So the bible becomes a hindrance to the RC narrative.
That's hate in the biblical sense as in:
Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Ok...with you now.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.