Posted on 04/22/2015 2:34:02 PM PDT by RnMomof7
Within Roman Catholicism (and within some other churches as well) there are prayers that are made for, through, and to the dead. We, as Reformed believers, reject all three of these categories but on different grounds. In discussing these issues with Roman Catholics it may be useful to be able to understand the different categories and to explain why it is that we reject each. We should pray for the living, to the living and true God, through the merits and intercession of Christ alone.
1. Prayers For the Dead
In Roman Catholicism, there is a belief in Purgatory. Although Roman Catholics give varying explanations, a popular perception is that purgatory is a place where, through a period of suffering, the soul is purged of sin (it's worth noting that some Roman Catholics today deny that Purgatory is either an actual place or that it has actual time, but we'll leave that for another discussion).
Those within Purgatory want to be purged of their sins (in Roman Catholic theology) but they also want to get out of there and on to heaven. So people are encouraged to pray for the souls of the deceased, for relief/escape from Purgatory. After all, apparently, this suffering can be alleviated through the granting of an indulgence to the person in purgatory.
The Bible, however, teaches that the souls of believers are, at their death made perfect in holiness and do immediately pass into glory. (See Thomas Watson's discussion, for a more detailed discussion.) Given this, prayers for dead believers are useless, since believers are already in heaven.
Furthermore, while certain folks have (from time to time) suggested that salvation is still possible in hell, it is not. Of course, this itself is not normally disputed by Roman Catholics, who recognize that there is no escape from hell itself. Thus, prayers for dead unbelievers are also useless, since unbelievers are already in hell, from which they cannot escape.
Thus, there is no third category - no third option that exists, where prayers for the deceased would have any value. Accordingly, we reject prayers for the dead as vain and superstitious, and we do not engage in such prayers.
2. Prayers To the Dead
In Roman Catholicism there are, from time to time, prayers to the dead. I would be quick to point out Mary, but this doctrine they have of the Assumption of Mary leaves it unclear whether they really consider Mary to be dead or resurrected (although, of course, as a matter of objective fact, she is dead and awaits the resurrection of the faithful). Aside from Mary, however, other saints are sometimes prayed to within Catholicism. One particularly popular saint in English-speaking countries is St. Jude (aka Judas not Iscariot, one of the twelve apostles), the patron saint of lost causes.
We, Reformed Christians, reject such prayers for several reasons. First, there is no reason at all to think that such prayers will be heard and understood by the dead. Second, not only does Scripture not encourage attempted communication with the dead, it condemns such attempts as witchcraft and necromancy. Third, the use of such prayers suggests a lack of faith in the efficacy of prayers directly to the Father. Fourth, the use of such prayers suggests a desire for the mediation of someone other than Christ, an issue that flows over into the next section, below.
This is one of those areas where Roman Catholic apologists are very eager these days to recast the issue in terms like "we're just asking our fellow believers to pray for us, are you saying that's wrong?" The answer to that question is that we do not object to asking fellow believers to pray for us. In fact, we ought to do so. James 5:16 Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
However, while many of the prayers to the dead are explicitly prayers that the dead would hear the person and pray to God for the person, that simply avoids the most grotesque abuses of the practice, such as when things are requested specifically from the saints or Mary, which are not theirs to give (such as success, grace, salvation, etc.). Those prayers (meta-prayers that request prayer by the saint to whom the prayers are offered) suffer from the objections as to the lack of warrant or example from the Scriptures as well as from the apparent view that these saints are to serve as mediators rather than Christ. As this is not a direct answer to the Romanist objections, I won't go on at greater length here.
3. Prayers Through the Dead
Roman Catholics sometimes explicitly, sometimes implicitly, offer up prayers that are through the dead. For example, the "Approved Prayer for the intercession of Pope John Paul II" (link) is a prayer that is not for John Paul II (JP2) or to JP2 but it is through JP2. It is addressed to God, "O Holy Trinity," but it requests that something be granted "Grant us," via the intercession of JP2 "through his intercession ... ."
Other times the request is more indirect. For example, sometimes when Mary (or others) are entreated it is suggested (as a justification) that since "the prayer of a righteous man availeth much" that the more righteous a person is, the more their prayer will avail (although, of course, the Scriptures do not teach such any such formula). Consequently, the idea is that we are asking these creatures to intercede before God on the basis of the merits that are theirs.
The connection between the two can be seen in this prayer to God pleading the merit and intercession of Rita of Cascia:
O God! who didst deign to confer on St. Rita for imitating Thee in love of her enemies, the favor of bearing her heart and brow the marks of Thy Love and Passion, grant we beseech Thee, that through her intercession and merit, we may, pierced by the thorns of compunction, ever contemplate the sufferings of Thy Passion, who livest and reignest forever and ever. Amen.(emphasis added - source)
(emphasis added - source)Prayer to Our Lady of Light
O radiant beam of celestial clarity,
O spotless Mother of infinite purity,
O seat of Wisdom and divine reliquary
of the Word Incarnate,
Hear my prayer,
O Queen of Light!
O Blessed Trinity,
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit,
You glorified my Mother, Mary,
as Queen of heaven and earth
and gave to her the gift of holding
Your Omnipotence in her holy hands,
Graciously grant what I seek
through her merits and intercession.
Amen.
956 The intercession of the saints. "Being more closely united to Christ, those who dwell in heaven fix the whole Church more firmly in holiness.... They do not cease to intercede with the Father for us, as they proffer the merits which they acquired on earth through the one mediator between God and men, Christ Jesus.... So by their fraternal concern is our weakness greatly helped."(emphases and elipses in original - footnote omitted - source)
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It’s curious to me that Jesus’ death on the Cross - which was for the remission of sin (TO ALL THOSE WHO ACCEPTED JESUS CHRIST AS SAVIOR), is not relevant to those who are dead.
Unless a human makes the choice to serve/worship Jesus prior to death; they have no remission of sins available after death.
Remember, “Paradise” was the waiting place for all those who had believed on Jesus (or God accounted their belief unto them as righteousness); UNTIL that day when Jesus entered into the holding place and gathered them all together and walked with them into Heaven. I have often wondered how Joseph (Jesus earthly father) reacted when he saw Jesus walk into paradise.
I was taught that Pergatory was actually HELL .. the place where your soul would stay if you had never received Jesus as your Savior. Receiving Jesus had to occur PRIOR TO PHYSICAL DEATH. Praying for a deceased person who you may believe was in purgatory .. would be useless .. because there was no entrance for them into Heaven without the blood of Jesus, right ..??
Though it is sad to think about, some people will never reach Heaven; even though they have been given ample opportunity to accept Jesus as their Savior while they were alive on the earth.
I know my views may not agree with yours, but I believe the Bible agrees with me.
....”pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins”....
Jesus already completed, that work in full ....once and for all. It’s finished...... Any doctrine that denies the sufficiency of Christ is to be rejected. Anyone who believes that God can be manipulated or bribed by prayers or sin offerings, is misled.......prayer is the means in which God gets his will done ‘on earth’ not the means in which man gets his will done ‘in heaven’.
Further...Mary and the saints are humans who have died and God forbids us to try and contact the dead........“Let no one be found among you who.......... who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD …” (Deuteronomy 18:10-12).
...”They are an abomination”...
If you think that then why read them as you did in responding to this?
Freedom_Is_Not_Free: And so begins yet another sorrowful round of Christian infighting between the born again evangelicals and the Catholics. These threads do not serve the Lord God in any way. I am sorry that the good Christians here cannot refrain from posting doctrinal articals that only lead to fighting between us.
Remind me to ping you both to some Catholic threads some time, wherein Catholic Tradition is used to justify anti-Protestant Christian bashing.
The Septuagint version of Scripture that Jesus quoted in the NT contained the Deuterocanonical books.
Luther did indeed remove books from Scripture, out of historical ignorance.
If you’re being honest, you have to acknowledge that there are far, far more anti-Catholic threads posted by Protestants, than there are threads of the reverse.
In Jesus days there were such debates and accusations as well.....Jesus himself cried out...’White washed hypocrites”...and “Brood of vipers”.... when speaking to the religious teachers and law givers of his day because they set their teachings against his. .......So too are we called to defend the faith.
Only a True Scotsman would admit to such a thing.
Whatever blows your skirt up, caww..
Still spreading hopelessness and heresy, Mom?
Well in Jesus days there were many false teachings then which he spoke against as well......so it’s no different to day that false teachings are numerous .... so there will be more of those to challenge in order for truth to ultimately be revealed....calling them anti-catholic is just a catholic term that keeps them in bondage to the victim card played so often.
....”Whatever blows your skirt up, caww”....
Well it’s exactly that type of response that is soooo revealing.
He removed it because it doesn’t square with the truth of the Gospel, which connects all “loosing from sin” to faith in Jesus Christ TODAY:
“He again fixes a certain day, “Today,” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before,
“TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS.”—Hebrews 4
Revealing what? Did I post to you originally? I don’t think I did. You have a good night, Skippy.
Sorry that so many catholics continue to post curt remarks rather then discuss the topic......in time they do float away which leaves those interested in discussion ...so I’ll patiently wait while the sifting occurs.
Am enjoying your articles a great deal...so again thanks for posting them.
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Necromancy is all this can be.
And the angel said to the women at the tomb of Jesus, “ why do you seek the living among the dead “ or in dead places..
God’s word forbids us to talk or communicate to the dead period.
Jesus Christ said, I am THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE, no man comes to the father, but by me..
He called some ‘whited sepulchres’. A sepulcher is a place for something dead. Jesus was telling them that they were the place of dead souls in them, souls without life in their spirit, the very Life Jesus was bringing through the Grace of God in Christ.
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