Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: piusv; eastsider; redleghunter; RnMomof7; ealgeone; CynicalBear
That is not an infallible papal or magisterial proclamation.

Actually you are wrong. It is also part of the Ordinary Universal Magisterium which is also infallible.

Actually you are wrong.

...t is only during the last three pontificates that the most important utterances of the Holy See have been given to the world in the shape of encyclicals,..

In the early centuries the term encyclical was applied, not only to papal letters, but to certain letters emanating from bishops or archbishops and directed to their own flocks or to other bishops.

As for the binding force of these documents [encyclicals] it is generally admitted that the mere fact that the pope should have given to any of his utterances the form of an encyclical does not necessarily constitute it an ex-cathedra pronouncement and invest it with infallible authority. The degree in which the infallible magisterium of the Holy See is committed must be judged from the circumstances, and from the language used in the particular case. — Catholic Encyclopedia>Encyclical; http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05413a.htm

Like the CCC, only parts of it can be considered infallible, and even the (imagined) guarantee of infallibility only extends to a pronouncement itself, and not to the arguments or reasons for it.

This does not mean that the teaching that Adam and Eve were two read persons would not be considered infallible teachig, in contrast to holding to the story of how they sinned, and the other historical events such as the Flood, but the point is that simply because something is taught in an encyclical and calls for assent does not make it infallible.

And Donum Veritatis also allows that even if "not habitually mistaken in its prudential judgments," "some Magisterial documents might not be free from all deficiencies," and withholding assent is allowed for a theologian "who might have serious difficulties, for reasons which appear to him wellfounded, in accepting a non-irreformable magisterial teaching." In such "even if the doctrine of the faith is not in question, the theologian will not present his own opinions or divergent hypotheses as though they were non-arguable conclusions," and is to "refrain from giving untimely public expression to them," and "avoid turning to the mass media..."

But which is what V2 dissenters regularly do.

Meanwhile, just what is and what is not an encyclical, and which parts express infallible teaching, and how they are to be understood (such as The Syllabus of Errors of Pius IX), are all subject to some interpretation.

Of course, i can understand why RCs who long for all the means of the Inquisition want to hold all formal papal statements as infallible, such as condemn as false that,

Roman pontiffs and ecumenical councils have wandered outside the limits of their powers, have usurped the rights of princes...The Church has not the power of using force. The Church ought to be separated from the .State, and the State from the Church. In the present day it is no longer expedient that the Catholic religion should be held as the only religion of the State, to the exclusion of all other forms of worship. Hence it has been wisely decided by law, in some Catholic countries, that persons coming to reside therein shall enjoy the public exercise of their own peculiar worship. (Syllabus of Errors of Pius IX)

And the Papal Bull Ad exstirpanda, May 15, 1252, by Pope Innocent IV, authorized the use of torture (coerce, "force all the heretics)" to elicit confessions (besides the burning of those convicted, and destruction their houses, and taking possessing their goods), and which was confirmed by Pope Alexander IV in 1259, and by Pope Clement IV in 1265.

And the issue of what is infallible is one in which RCs disagree, as they lack an infallible list of all infallible decrees. Yet it is not likely to be as many as they perhaps could be,

Bishop Vincent Gasser, spokesman for the deputation “de fide” (the committee of Conciliar Fathers charged with drafting the solemn definition), delivered a four-hour speech explaining and defending the draft which was submitted to the assembled Fathers for their vote. Gasser is quoted no less than four times in the official footnotes to “Lumen Gentium” 25, which treats of infallibility…

In replying to some Fathers who urged that the procedures or form to be used by the pope in arriving at an infallible decision (i.e., his grave moral duty to pray for guidance, diligently consult the existing teaching of the Church, etc.) be included in the definition, Gasser replied: But, most eminent and reverend fathers, this proposal simply cannot be accepted because we are not dealing with something new here. "Already thousands and thousands of dogmatic judgments have gone forth from the apostolic See;" where is the law which prescribed the form to be observed in such judgments?

In other words, Gasser was able to assert "in passing"--that is, as something which did not need arguing and would be taken for granted by his audience-- that there had already been "thousands and thousands" of infallible definitions issued by the Roman see! - http://www.orthodoxanswers.org/papalinfallibility.pdf (EO source)

185 posted on 04/25/2015 9:45:47 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 110 | View Replies ]


To: daniel1212; RnMomof7; piusv
There seems to be a radical misunderstanding of what the magisterium and the charism of infallibility are. For a number of reasons, I'm disinclined to address the misunderstanding -- the primary reason being that it's off-topic. Still, it might be instructive to explain how I answered RnMomof7's 4 question as I did.

There is a reference book known as "Denzinger" whose full title is “Compendium of Creeds, Definitions, and Declarations on Matters of Faith and Morals”. Denzinger is the reference book for scholars and students alike who are interested in the sources of various Church teachings. Denzinger is laid out chronologically, with a “Systematic Index” in the back that one can use to find the document(s) related to the matter(s) being researched.

For example, when I wanted to know what the magisterium had to say about the reality of Adam and Eve, I started with the “Overview of the Individual Sections” at the begining of the “Systematic Index” and found “C. God Creates and Blesses the World”. Within sectiom C I found “4. Man (a: The Origin of Mankind ..”, at which point I left the Overview and went to Section C4 of the Systematic Index. There I found “Adam and Eve were the first human beings created by God ...” Followed by several paragraph numbers. Since I was especially interested in the “last word” on the subject, I went to the highest number (as I said, the basic format is chronological). That’s where I found the quote from Humani generis that I posted on the thread at #84 above.

The teaching of Humani generis that Adam and Eve were real individuals is indeed an infallible expression of the ordinary and universal magisterium. Should any Catholic wish to challenge me on this, I feel certain that piusv would be happy to join me in defending that claim on a separate Catholic Caucus thread dedicated to the issue.

Peace of Christ be with you.

190 posted on 04/25/2015 10:58:43 AM PDT by eastsider
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 185 | View Replies ]

To: daniel1212; eastsider
As for the binding force of these documents [encyclicals] it is generally admitted that the mere fact that the pope should have given to any of his utterances the form of an encyclical does not necessarily constitute it an ex-cathedra pronouncement and invest it with infallible authority. The degree in which the infallible magisterium of the Holy See is committed must be judged from the circumstances, and from the language used in the particular case.

Pope Pius XII declared in his encyclical Humani Generis (1950):6 “It is not to be thought that what is set down in Encyclical Letters does not demand assent in itself, because in this the Popes do not exercise the supreme power of their magisterium. For, these matters are taught by the ordinary magisterium, regarding which the following is pertinent: ‘He who heareth you, heareth Me’ (Luke 10:16); and usually what is set forth and inculcated in the Encyclical Letters already pertains to Catholic doctrine. But if the Supreme Pontiffs in their acts, after due consideration, express an opinion on a hitherto controversial matter, it is clear to all that this matter, according to the mind and the will of the same Pontiffs, cannot any longer be considered a question of free discussion among the theologians.”

In the case of Adam and Eve, Pius XII was reiterating infallible, Catholic teaching.

200 posted on 04/25/2015 5:56:46 PM PDT by piusv
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 185 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson