Posted on 03/29/2015 4:16:53 PM PDT by NYer
My final answer is NO.
Let us AGREE to NOT AGREE.
"Carte blanche"? Hardly. There is a huge difference between the above quote and the idea that God and our Salvation history are limited to literal, sometimes word-by word, often self-interpretation of Scripture. Again, often a rejected verse in these discussions, John the Evangelist himself said that not everything Jesus did could ever be written.
Again, Catholic in lower case, "Book of Mormon" and Koran on caps...
Yes....catholics run to John 20:30 yet ignore 31.
30Many other signs therefore Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;
31but these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.
Please due notice the limitation though of v30.....signs Jesus did in the presence of the disciples. This greatly narrows down the time period we're talking about.
Catholics will also run to John 21:25 for the same reason. No doubt the life of Jesus, which is eternal, would be very, very, expansive. None doubt that.
However we have the Word of God to show us the path to salvation. How to have a forgiveness and a relationship with God on an eternal basis.
If the Bible is not the standard by which we measure truth, as we are told to search the Scriptures, then any source could be claimed as truth. Hence the reference to the Koran, Book of Mormon, Aunt Mary had a vision, etc.
My point is that the roman catholic church has had opportunites over the years to "canonize" additional books to the Bible that cover some of the aspects of Mary but they have not. And there's a reason they haven't.
When the facts are against you verga, the name calling comes out!<
Mind reading is against the rules. BTW if you used the dictionary, you would realize that Palaver is not name calling
I'm not mind reading at all....just reading your mindless postings!
Please have someone that speaks English understand them for you, because you are not.
How do you know? Seriously how do you know? And before you make the stock prot answer of: "The Bible never mentions....." There is a lot things the Bible never mentions, Like how many pairs of Sandals did Paul have? What color were Peter's eyes? How tall was Stephen? etc...
Exactly the point. "These things are written so that you might believe." Sandals, eye color, height: not important so it wasn't mentioned. The apostles asking Mary for advice or to pray for them? Either it never happened or it wasn't important enough to mention. We are supposed to pray for one another. That's important and that is written.
I saw this guy on “The Journey Home” on EWTN..he looks like a tough nut,which only made his story all the more compelling
So your position is that the apostles never would have asked Mary to intercede for them during her life time either?
Yeah tat makes a lot of sense./SARC
I don’t think that God is confined to the words of the Bible.Does the Bible say that I was going to have a dream of Mary in which she gave me an instruction? No, but it happened.He works and has worked throughout history in ways that he chooses.
Confession healed that man because in confession he met and was forgiven by Jesus.You seem to not understand Catholic beliefs at all.
May Christ bless you this day.
You're right....I don't understand catholic beliefs but from what I've learned they are in conflict with the Word on more than one occasion....and to be honest it appears from this board a lot of catholics don't understand what they believe either.
I do understand Christianity however.
When God speaks to us He usually does so through His Holy Spirit, His Word, or an angel.
We have no evidence of Mary in the NT being used the way catholics claim.
I agree God can operate anyway He wants to. The Bible is not intended to cover every little detail of the life of Christ. John makes that clear in his Gospel.
However, He has given us His Word as a rod to measure truth against. The Word's primary purpose is to point us to Christ.....not Mary.
John said it best....these things have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name (John 20:31 NASB).
I'm a Catholic of the Roman Rite. I chose after a long and painful process, to come back to the Church. I believe what she teaches and what she has taught throughout the centuries. Why would I cast aside the wisdom of centuries of minds, hearts, and souls who have done the interpreting for me, to go off on my own, with a truncated version of my Bible, and abandon all that the Catholic Church has to offer? I don't have the audacity to delude myself. I did once. Thought I knew it all. I left and my life was empty because I thought I knew it all and yet found nothing.
Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium of the Church present the fullest picture. If you choose the Bible only, that's up to you. Just please don't make the assumption that you know what we're all about. It's a lifelong journey and process.
As for the deuterocanonical books, such as the Protoevangelium of James, they are part of our Sacred Tradition. Not all, not all the pseudoepigraphia, and none of the gnostic gospels. It's a matter of validity, commonality, and other factors for greater minds and hearts than my own. No, not part of the Canon. We did not add them to it. We also did not remove Scripture from the Canon. Read the Apocrypha sometime. 1 Maccabees especially. Then think of the Christians being persecuted, burned, decapitated today. It makes the arguments between Christians in the West seem so petty and foolish, when the Judeo-Christian tradition on which our nation was built is falling apart. Who is to say when the West will be next? We need each other. And we need to stop looking at one another as enemies.
Returning to the article, hey, if the man left the life he'd been living, I'd be happy for him, whatever denomination he chose. The CCC says:
The Second Vatican Council speaks of salvation outside the Church in Lumen Gentium, nos. 14 and 16. Here are the pertinent sections from those two articles: 14. This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved. [. . .] 16. [. . .] Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel. She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life.
<<<<<"The Bible never mentions.....">>>>>
IMHO part of the problem in forum is that dealing in absolutes can ruin the validity of a statement.
Saying that the Bible does not mention a situation is a more accurate, especially noting different versions and content of the Bible.
Saying something never happened because it was not in the Bible denies the humanity of the people in it. It also at times defies common sense. These were real people who lived and interacted with one another. They shared a common experience that no one can fully comprehend unless they lived it.
An example closer to our time would be what once was called, The Great War" as there had been nothing like it before. We can read about World War I, but can we or anyone else today have any idea what it was like at home? In the trenches? On the fields? There's no one around today to tell us, either. All we have is a small portion handed down for scholars to argue over. But these were human beings, living through one of the greatest tragedies of all time. Appreciating context, reliability of source, those who lived closer to the time, who were more likely to have a clearer picture than people today all contribute to a fuller understanding on a human level.
Isn't that fuller understanding what we all look for when we seek God- especially a God Who took our human nature as His Own?
That's quite a statement to make, as scholars of all denominations continue to debate the meaning of Scriptural passages and, hopefully, their application to one's daily life.
Even the Catholic Church admits that, while it has the greatest deposit of faith, that no one can comprehend God completely in this life, or the next. The creature cannot be greater than the One Who created all things. God is infinite in majesty, in power, in all virtue, in love, for He is Love Itself.
Actually protestants do understand god. They have remade him in their own image and his will is bent towards theirs. It is the rest of us that do not understand God, the Creator of the universe Ex-Nihlo. He is to great to be understood by our puny brains. And I am grateful to have a God that is to far above me to understand fully.
God bless you!
That's quite a statement to make, as scholars of all denominations continue to debate the meaning of Scriptural passages and, hopefully, their application to one's daily life.
Christianity is about believing/following Jesus. It's not that complicated if the texts are read.
Do I claim to know more than God? Nope. no way. not even close.
BTW....the catholic church does not have the greatest deposit of faith. Please....the arrogance of catholicism again.
Christians are all filled with the same Holy Spirit. We do have different gifts so we can accomplish what God wants.
>>BTW....the catholic church does not have the greatest deposit of faith. <<
Yup. It does. All faiths have it to some extent. No one, neither church nor individual, has it all, because God is infinite.
>>Please....the arrogance of catholicism again.<<
Simple truth. Arrogance would be thinking we could all do it on our own.
>>Christians are all filled with the same Holy Spirit. We do have different gifts so we can accomplish what God wants.<<
Catholics are Christians. Each person has the Spirit to a different degree. And yes, each has a role to fulfill in this life.
On the premise that we are filled with the same Spirit, would it not follow that we should treat one another with respect, whatever our differences, lest we grieve the Holy Spirit?
.......Let us AGREE to NOT AGREE”....
Let’s not...let’s carry this out...present your own opinion of how you see the Bible and the purpose for which God protected it for centuries..... After all is it not more significant that despite all the attacks against it...including that from the catholic church and the popes...’He has’ preserved His words to us throughout the ages?
Catholics misconstrue the correction of false doctrine as not respecting catholicism.
Paul was ready and willing to correct false teaching.
However, I do agree the tone and manner can be improved by all. Problem with electronic media is we can't, at least for the most part, determine tone correctly.
Texts require proper interpretation and application to one's daily life.
Then the catholic church needs to put out a commentary on the proper interpretation and application on ALL verses.
To date, some 1700 years later, they have not.
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