Posted on 03/26/2015 11:36:04 AM PDT by RnMomof7
We agree.
the author is a believer in the philosophy of Sola Scriptura, which is not found in the Bible.
And that statement would be in error. So we don't agree..
The phrase 'sola scriptura' is not found in the Bible. But then neither is the word 'Trinity'. Both concepts are however clearly taught, and since all real Christians should be in agreement on the Triune Nature, the thought was included for comparison, not discussion, purposes.
In the case of 'sola scriptura' it is demonstrable from both Holy Writ AND church tradition that the italicized statement above is not correct and is more an attempt at obfuscation... It seems that some have need to familiarize themselves with the Bereans.
Recorded in the Bible (and thus the inspired, inerrant Word of God) and since it is the Book of the Acts of the Apostles, it is also Church Tradition, this sure seems to indicate that even if it's not important to the Church now, to at least the Bereans the teaching they were being asked to accept being in the Bible WAS important.
For your convenience here is the passage with the applicable part highlighted: "Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, who received the word with all eagerness, daily searching the scriptures, whether these things were so." (Douay)
Again direct your attention to the passage in Acts linked earlier and quoted above. Being both Scripture AND tradition (which as you know, the Roman Catholic Church teaches is equal to and possibly of greater weight) the passage commands a position of 'double' authority. When the Apostle Paul - the 'Church Authority' - spoke to the Bereans what did they do to verify what the Apostle Paul - the 'Church Authority' - said was true? Did they just blindly accept the teaching because after all, Paul was, you know - the Authority?
Based on what is recorded for us in Holy Writ, they searched the Scripture for verification.
Since "All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice, That the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work. "(2 Timothy 3:16-17 - Douay) it would seem that, barring a Roman Catholic tradition that tells you to ignore the Scripture, the example of the Bereans is one that all followers of Jesus Christ, not just Roman Catholics, should be upholding. By the same principle, if there is a tradition that tells you to ignore Scripture, you should take the Berean approach and say "WHY???"
Do you wish to align yourself with such a ... point of view?
To the point of view that pronouncements of Church Authorities should be examined by and judged by and from Scripture, yes. We have clear Scriptural and historical teaching on that point. Saying to the contrary is not a position that can logically be defended.
It kind of all boils down to this: Do you verify from Scripture all the pronouncements of Church Authorities today and if not, why not since the example is there both by Scripture and Tradition both of which make us all accountable.
As you asked another, "Do you accept the Scriptures or not?"
I was talking to someone who claimed to be a “loyal and faithful” Catholic, not the peanut gallery.
**The Bible does say Mary was married to Joseph and that Jesus had brothers and sisters.**
The brothers and sisters you refer to were cousins.
They lived in a complex of small huts with a shared well and a shared fire pit.
They called each other “brother and sister” in faith. Haven’t you ever heard that in some of St. Paul’s readings at Mass?
Only in the mind of a deceived cultist. There is nothing in Scripture to make that claim, no matter how much it is twisted. Of course, we are talking about RCC cult principles...
God had the Catholic Church organize the Scripture.
But I repeat myself... Only in the mind of a deceived cultist. There is nothing in Scripture to make that claim, no matter how much it is twisted. Of course, we are talking about RCC cult principles...
Welcome to the club!
The Father blessed Mary more than any other created person
There's one untruth, just for an example...This is what was actually said...
Luk 1:42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
Blessed 'among' women...NOT above women or anyone else...There are others in the scriptures who are just as blessed as Mary...
Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist:
Mary was blessed among women...No one was greater in the eyes of God than John the Baptist...
Really?
Have YOU ever been wrong about something?
Did that make EVERYTHING you ever did wrong as well?
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then.
That's why the Bereans checked things out for themselves.
It's quite a liberating concept.
Don't trust anyone over thirty ...
As regards the oft-quoted Mt. 16:18, note the bishops promise in the profession of faith of Vatican 1,
Likewise I accept Sacred Scripture according to that sense which Holy mother Church held and holds, since it is her right to judge of the true sense and interpretation of the holy scriptures; nor will I ever receive and interpret them except according to the unanimous consent of the fathers. — http://mb-soft.com/believe/txs/firstvc.htm
Yet as the Dominican cardinal and Catholic theologian Yves Congar O.P. states,
Unanimous patristic consent as a reliable locus theologicus is classical in Catholic theology; it has often been declared such by the magisterium and its value in scriptural interpretation has been especially stressed. Application of the principle is difficult, at least at a certain level. In regard to individual texts of Scripture total patristic consensus is rare...One example: the interpretation of Peter’s confession in Matthew 16:16-18. Except at Rome, this passage was not applied by the Fathers to the papal primacy; they worked out an exegesis at the level of their own ecclesiological thought, more anthropological and spiritual than juridical. — Yves M.-J. Congar, O.P., p. 71
And Catholic archbishop Peter Richard Kenrick (1806-1896), while yet seeking to support Peter as the rock, stated that,
“If we are bound to follow the majority of the fathers in this thing, then we are bound to hold for certain that by the rock should be understood the faith professed by Peter, not Peter professing the faith.” — Speech of archbishop Kenkick, p. 109; An inside view of the vatican council, edited by Leonard Woolsey Bacon.
Your own CCC allows the interpretation that, “On the rock of this faith confessed by St Peter, Christ build his Church,” (pt. 1, sec. 2, cp. 2, para. 424), for some of the ancients (for what their opinion is worth) provided for this or other interpretations.
• Ambrosiaster [who elsewhere upholds Peter as being the chief apostle to whom the Lord had entrusted the care of the Church, but not superior to Paul as an apostle except in time], Eph. 2:20:
Wherefore the Lord says to Peter: 'Upon this rock I shall build my Church,' that is, upon this confession of the catholic faith I shall establish the faithful in life. — Ambrosiaster, Commentaries on Galatians—Philemon, Eph. 2:20; Gerald L. Bray, p. 42
• Augustine, sermon:
"Christ, you see, built his Church not on a man but on Peter's confession. What is Peter's confession? 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' There's the rock for you, there's the foundation, there's where the Church has been built, which the gates of the underworld cannot conquer. — John Rotelle, O.S.A., Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine , © 1993 New City Press, Sermons, Vol III/6, Sermon 229P.1, p. 327
Upon this rock, said the Lord, I will build my Church. Upon this confession, upon this that you said, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God,' I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not conquer her (Mt. 16:18). — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 236A.3, p. 48.
• Augustine, sermon:
For petra (rock) is not derived from Peter, but Peter from petra; just as Christ is not called so from the Christian, but the Christian from Christ. For on this very account the Lord said, 'On this rock will I build my Church,' because Peter had said, 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.' On this rock, therefore, He said, which thou hast confessed, I will build my Church. For the Rock (Petra) was Christ; and on this foundation was Peter himself built. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Christ Jesus. The Church, therefore, which is founded in Christ received from Him the keys of the kingdom of heaven in the person of Peter, that is to say, the power of binding and loosing sins. For what the Church is essentially in Christ, such representatively is Peter in the rock (petra); and in this representation Christ is to be understood as the Rock, Peter as the Church. — Augustine Tractate CXXIV; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers: First Series, Volume VII Tractate CXXIV (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf107.iii.cxxv.html)
• Augustine, sermon:
And Peter, one speaking for the rest of them, one for all, said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God (Mt 16:15-16)...And I tell you: you are Peter; because I am the rock, you are Rocky, Peter-I mean, rock doesn't come from Rocky, but Rocky from rock, just as Christ doesn't come from Christian, but Christian from Christ; and upon this rock I will build my Church (Mt 16:17-18); not upon Peter, or Rocky, which is what you are, but upon the rock which you have confessed. I will build my Church though; I will build you, because in this answer of yours you represent the Church. — John Rotelle, O.S.A. Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1993), Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 270.2, p. 289
• Augustine, sermon:
Peter had already said to him, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' He had already heard, 'Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not conquer her' (Mt 16:16-18)...Christ himself was the rock, while Peter, Rocky, was only named from the rock. That's why the rock rose again, to make Peter solid and strong; because Peter would have perished, if the rock hadn't lived. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 244.1, p. 95
• Augustine, sermon:
...because on this rock, he said, I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not overcome it (Mt. 16:18). Now the rock was Christ (1 Cor. 10:4). Was it Paul that was crucified for you? Hold on to these texts, love these texts, repeat them in a fraternal and peaceful manner. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1995), Sermons, Volume III/10, Sermon 358.5, p. 193
• Augustine, Psalm LXI:
Let us call to mind the Gospel: 'Upon this Rock I will build My Church.' Therefore She crieth from the ends of the earth, whom He hath willed to build upon a Rock. But in order that the Church might be builded upon the Rock, who was made the Rock? Hear Paul saying: 'But the Rock was Christ.' On Him therefore builded we have been. — Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1956), Volume VIII, Saint Augustin, Exposition on the Book of Psalms, Psalm LXI.3, p. 249. (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf108.ii.LXI.html)
• Augustine, in “Retractions,”
In a passage in this book, I said about the Apostle Peter: 'On him as on a rock the Church was built.'...But I know that very frequently at a later time, I so explained what the Lord said: 'Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church,' that it be understood as built upon Him whom Peter confessed saying: 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God,' and so Peter, called after this rock, represented the person of the Church which is built upon this rock, and has received 'the keys of the kingdom of heaven.' For, 'Thou art Peter' and not 'Thou art the rock' was said to him. But 'the rock was Christ,' in confessing whom, as also the whole Church confesses, Simon was called Peter. But let the reader decide which of these two opinions is the more probable. — The Fathers of the Church (Washington D.C., Catholic University, 1968), Saint Augustine, The Retractations Chapter 20.1:.
• Basil of Seleucia, Oratio 25:
'You are Christ, Son of the living God.'...Now Christ called this confession a rock, and he named the one who confessed it 'Peter,' perceiving the appellation which was suitable to the author of this confession. For this is the solemn rock of religion, this the basis of salvation, this the wall of faith and the foundation of truth: 'For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Christ Jesus.' To whom be glory and power forever. — Oratio XXV.4, M.P.G., Vol. 85, Col. 296-297.
• Bede, Matthaei Evangelium Expositio, 3:
You are Peter and on this rock from which you have taken your name, that is, on myself, I will build my Church, upon that perfection of faith which you confessed I will build my Church by whose society of confession should anyone deviate although in himself he seems to do great things he does not belong to the building of my Church...Metaphorically it is said to him on this rock, that is, the Saviour which you confessed, the Church is to be built, who granted participation to the faithful confessor of his name. — 80Homily 23, M.P.L., Vol. 94, Col. 260. Cited by Karlfried Froehlich, Formen, Footnote #204, p. 156 [unable to verify by me].
• Cassiodorus, Psalm 45.5:
'It will not be moved' is said about the Church to which alone that promise has been given: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I shall build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.' For the Church cannot be moved because it is known to have been founded on that most solid rock, namely, Christ the Lord. — Expositions in the Psalms, Volume 1; Volume 51, Psalm 45.5, p. 455
• Chrysostom (John) [who affirmed Peter was a rock, but here not the rock in Mt. 16:18]:
Therefore He added this, 'And I say unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church; that is, on the faith of his confession. — Chrysostom, Homilies on the Gospel of Saint Matthew, Homily LIIl; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf110.iii.LII.html)
• Cyril of Alexandria:
When [Peter] wisely and blamelessly confessed his faith to Jesus saying, 'You are Christ, Son of the living God,' Jesus said to divine Peter: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church.' Now by the word 'rock', Jesus indicated, I think, the immoveable faith of the disciple.”. — Cyril Commentary on Isaiah 4.2.
• Origen, Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII):
“For a rock is every disciple of Christ of whom those drank who drank of the spiritual rock which followed them, 1 Corinthians 10:4 and upon every such rock is built every word of the church, and the polity in accordance with it; for in each of the perfect, who have the combination of words and deeds and thoughts which fill up the blessedness, is the church built by God.'
“For all bear the surname ‘rock’ who are the imitators of Christ, that is, of the spiritual rock which followed those who are being saved, that they may drink from it the spiritual draught. But these bear the surname of rock just as Christ does. But also as members of Christ deriving their surname from Him they are called Christians, and from the rock, Peters.” — Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII), sect. 10,11 ( http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/101612.htm)
• Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II): Thus our one immovable foundation, our one blissful rock of faith, is the confession from Peter's mouth, Thou art the Son of the living God. On it we can base an answer to every objection with which perverted ingenuity or embittered treachery may assail the truth."-- (Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II), para 23; Philip Schaff, editor, The Nicene & Post Nicene Fathers Series 2, Vol 9.
Sure!
Do I accept the way your chosen religion INTERPRETS them?
Pretty much so; but your church is PLAINLY in error on some things.
Who left some stuff out that was SO important that Mary had to leave her throne in Heaven and come to Earth to straighten things out?
A man had a habit of grumbling at the food his wife placed before him at family meals. Then he would ask the blessing.
One day after his usual combination complaint-prayer, his little girl asked, "Daddy, does God hear us when we pray?"
"Why, of course," he replied. "He hears us every time we pray."
She pauses on this a moment, and asked, "Does he hear everything we say the rest of the time?"
"Yes, dear, every word," he replied, encouraged that he had inspired his daughter to be curious about spiritual matters.
However, his pride was quickly turned to humility...
"Then which does God believe?"
And God used an ass to get thru to Balaam...
By 96AD 85% of them were wrong. They strayed from what Jesus and the apostles taught. Anything written after 96AD or by the apostles themselves is suspect.
The oracles of God were entrusted to the Jews. Later the Catholic Church added to what they considered scripture to bolster false teaching.
(It's not in the Bible).
What utter nonsense. The Greek word for cousin is anepsios and not once is it used for Jesus brothers or sisters. If they were Jesus cousins it would have been used as it is here.
Colossians 4:10 My fellow prisoner Aristarchus sends you his greetings, as does Mark, the cousin of Barnabas.
Surely you wouldn't claim the Holy Spirit made a mistake in what words He inspired to be written would you?
No need to shout. Catholics only need to show an infallible source other than scripture for what the apostles taught.
“Then which does God believe?”
It is strange how we can accidently stumble on to the fact that what we claim to believe is actually the truth.
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