Posted on 03/24/2015 3:57:42 PM PDT by NYer
Q: I was talking with an Evangelical co-worker and he said the Bible teaches that once we are “saved,” we can never lose our salvation. Is that true?
A: Absolutely not. In fact, the Bible is full of passages that either directly or indirectly contradict this doctrine of “Once Saved, Always Saved.” For example:
Romans 11:17-23, “But if some of the branches were broken off [the Jews], and you, a wild olive shoot [the Gentiles], were grafted in their place to share the richness of the olive tree [Jesus Christ], do not boast over the branches...For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you...Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in His kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.”
Paul is talking about how salvation has come to the Gentiles, while many of the Jews have rejected it. And he makes it very clear that once you have been grafted into Christ, you must “continue in His kindness,” or you can also be cut off. So, even after you’ve been saved, you can still be cut off from Jesus Christ.
This is further seen in Galatians 5:1, “For freedom Christ has set us free; stand fast therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery [sin].”
If once saved always saved is true, then one cannot “submit again” to a “yoke of slavery,” and Paul’s warning makes no sense.
But Paul goes on in verse 4 to say, “You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.” Paul is talking to Gentile Christians who had been wrongly taught by the Judaizers that they have to be circumcised and obey the Mosaic Law in order to be true Christians. Paul tells them that is false, and if they submit to circumcision and to the Old Law, they will be “severed from Christ.” If once saved always saved is true, though, they can’t be severed from Christ and, once again, Paul’s warning is meaningless.
We also have the Parable of the Prodigal Son, Luke, chapter 15. The Prodigal Son was in his father’s house, and the father here is representative of God the Father. Then, the Prodigal Son leaves his father’s house and goes and lives a sinful life. In the end, though, he repents and returns to his father. After the Prodigal Son returns, the father says this of him in verse 24: “For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.”
In Evangelical terminology, to be dead is to be unsaved, and to be alive is to be saved. Notice very carefully, though, that the father says the son is alive “again.” In other words, the son was alive, or saved, when he was in his father’s house at the beginning of the parable; was “dead,” or unsaved, when he left his father’s house and lived in sin; then was alive again, saved again, when he repented and returned to his father’s house. Alive, dead, alive again. Saved, unsaved, saved again.
Once saved always saved? I don’t think so.
So sorry you have such a misunderstanding of scripture.
.
.Another totally, categorically false assertion on your part.
The “sufficiency of Christ” is his ability to rightly judge at the Day of Trumpets on the authority of his righteous shed blood. That blood is what makes his judgement sufficient!
His sufficiency bears not upon any other! He will judge, and it will not be subject to question. No one can claim what is his alone, and no scripture offers such.
The path to salvation is clearly written in scripture: Confess, repent, sin no more, to the end.
1John 2
[1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
[2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
[3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
[5] But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
[6] He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
[7] Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
If you have an argument with what John wrote, argue with him, next time you see him. .
John disagrees with your path as he recognizes, as did Paul, Peter and every one else, that we still will commit sins.
1John 2 [1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: [2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
The wonderful, and humbling aspect of Christianity is that even though we may still sin, Christ has forgiven all who believe of their sins.
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found?
2For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
3For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.”
4Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
5But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
6just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7“BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED.
8“BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT.”
Sure doesn't sound like Abraham was waiting for Judgment Day to see if he got into Heaven.
And we also know that he sinned after this and he still got into Heaven.
We can say the same for David, Peter, Paul, etc.
John also penned these words expressing the confidence of the desire of Jesus, that we be where He is.....Heaven.
Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. (John 17:24, NASB)
Hebrews 6: 1] Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
[2] Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
[3] And this will we do, if God permit.
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
[7] For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
[8] But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
This is what you posted from Hebrews.
If you believe this, which I've asked you if you do and you refuse to answer, then it teaches that once you lose your salvation, there are no second chances.
I'll ask you again....is this what YOU believe. You posted it so you have to answer.
To believe, in the Hebrew tradition, is to follow in minute detail, at the cost of your life if you fail.
One who believes doesn't parse scripture for a more desirable meaning. One who believes follows every commandment, and lives by every reason given, without question.
If one who lives this way makes a small mistake, it is not charged to him. That is called Grace.
.
.
And thanks for admitting that you do not believe Hebrews 6.
.
One who believes doesn't parse scripture for a more desirable meaning. One who believes follows every commandment, and lives by every reason given, without question.
If one who lives this way makes a small mistake, it is not charged to him. That is called Grace.
Dude....the verses I posted and "parsed" as you suggest were from a prior post you posted.
The question I asked still remains unanswered by you and I guess it shall. Perhaps you are afraid to answer the question. Because if Heb 6 teaches what you suggest it does, there is no second chance of getting your salvation back if you lose it.
I will ask again....is that what you really believe??
Surely the roman catholic church has a number or a list. What say you?
Still waiting on how many good works you say we have to do.......
.
You parsed the chapter I posted down to one verse which you proceeded to turn on its head.
Hebrews 6 tells it exactly as it is. Those that turn away get no second chance, just as Paul and Peter say in great detail.
Why would you think someone that turns away should have any chance? It makes a joke out of Grace.
.
Hebrews 6 tells it exactly as it is. Those that turn away get no second chance, just as Paul and Peter say in great detail.
Why would you think someone that turns away should have any chance? It makes a joke out of Grace.
You seem to have an understanding problem....verses from Hebrews I posted were the ones you posted. If you can't understand that, then I guess this conversation is about done.
The only conversation you need worry about is the one you’ll have at the Great White Throne.
There won’t be any second chances awarded there.
.
.
>> “You seem to have an understanding problem....verses from Hebrews I posted were the ones you posted” <<
.
Nice diversion!
The verse whose meaning you inverted was in 1John.
.
Need a post reference....for clarity so we are on the same page.
Use the “TO” buttons at the bottom line of the posts.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.