Posted on 03/24/2015 3:57:42 PM PDT by NYer
Q: I was talking with an Evangelical co-worker and he said the Bible teaches that once we are “saved,” we can never lose our salvation. Is that true?
A: Absolutely not. In fact, the Bible is full of passages that either directly or indirectly contradict this doctrine of “Once Saved, Always Saved.” For example:
Romans 11:17-23, “But if some of the branches were broken off [the Jews], and you, a wild olive shoot [the Gentiles], were grafted in their place to share the richness of the olive tree [Jesus Christ], do not boast over the branches...For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you...Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in His kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.”
Paul is talking about how salvation has come to the Gentiles, while many of the Jews have rejected it. And he makes it very clear that once you have been grafted into Christ, you must “continue in His kindness,” or you can also be cut off. So, even after you’ve been saved, you can still be cut off from Jesus Christ.
This is further seen in Galatians 5:1, “For freedom Christ has set us free; stand fast therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery [sin].”
If once saved always saved is true, then one cannot “submit again” to a “yoke of slavery,” and Paul’s warning makes no sense.
But Paul goes on in verse 4 to say, “You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.” Paul is talking to Gentile Christians who had been wrongly taught by the Judaizers that they have to be circumcised and obey the Mosaic Law in order to be true Christians. Paul tells them that is false, and if they submit to circumcision and to the Old Law, they will be “severed from Christ.” If once saved always saved is true, though, they can’t be severed from Christ and, once again, Paul’s warning is meaningless.
We also have the Parable of the Prodigal Son, Luke, chapter 15. The Prodigal Son was in his father’s house, and the father here is representative of God the Father. Then, the Prodigal Son leaves his father’s house and goes and lives a sinful life. In the end, though, he repents and returns to his father. After the Prodigal Son returns, the father says this of him in verse 24: “For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.”
In Evangelical terminology, to be dead is to be unsaved, and to be alive is to be saved. Notice very carefully, though, that the father says the son is alive “again.” In other words, the son was alive, or saved, when he was in his father’s house at the beginning of the parable; was “dead,” or unsaved, when he left his father’s house and lived in sin; then was alive again, saved again, when he repented and returned to his father’s house. Alive, dead, alive again. Saved, unsaved, saved again.
Once saved always saved? I don’t think so.
Read all of chapter 10 in context. The writer is speaking to two groups.
Those who are believers and those who are not. Read v 10-22. Sure sounds like security to me.
In v26 this is to the unbeliever. What other sacrifice will forgive their sins, if after being told about Christ, they reject Him and continue in their sinful life?
Yes, v. 26 is about those who reject Christ, those who count His blood a common thing after having been sactified by it (v. 29).
You can’t just change the author’s subject willy-nilly to make him say what you want him to.
You can listen to him or not, it’s your choice. /shrug
You can’t just change the author’s subject willy-nilly to make him say what you want him to.
If your view is correct then the writer contradicts himself and a lot of the NT regarding the eternal security of the believer. I don't see that happening here.
It flies against this:
Jesus said: Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. (John 5:24)
On your security in Him: My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. (John 10:27-28)
On your homepage you note you are a Christian.....do you believe you can lose your eternal security?
If so, why?
What must you do to keep it?
Catholic shadow boxing against strawmen. Jesus died for us, one time. We are savef if we choose to accept HIM,repent and sin no more.
Repent and go and sin no more is the standard
No it is not
Hebrews 6:
1] Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
[2] Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
[3] And this will we do, if God permit.
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
[7] For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
[8] But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
2Peter 2:
[9] The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
[10] But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
[11] Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
[12] But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
[13] And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
[14] Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
[15] Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
[16] But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
[17] These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
[18] For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
[19] While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
[20] For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[21] For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
[22] But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
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>> “if you fall into habitual, unrepentant sinning, you were never saved to begin with.” <<
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Nobody is “Saved” at the beginning.
The word of God is clear that all salvation is at the last trump.
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OSAS is what undermines faith.
It is a lie that tempts one to sin again to see if it is true. (it isn’t)
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If, eternal security is not guaranteed through the shed blood of Jesus on the cross, then what can YOU do to earn your security??
Is this what you believe??
That’s one view.
Scripture teaches that one’s final salvation depends on the state of the soul at death. As Jesus himself tells us, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31–46). One who dies in the state of friendship with God (the state of grace) will go to heaven. The one who dies in a state of enmity and rebellion against God (the state of mortal sin) will go to hell.
Can you be assured of salvation? As the Bible says, you are already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but you're also being saved (1 Cor. 1:18, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and you have the hope that you will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul you are working out your salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13).
So if Peter and the disciples had died right after denying Jesus and fleeing from Him....Heaven or Hell?
Scripture teaches that one’s final salvation depends on the state of the soul at death. As Jesus himself tells us, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31–46). One who dies in the state of friendship with God (the state of grace) will go to heaven. The one who dies in a state of enmity and rebellion against God (the state of mortal sin) will go to hell.
Can you be assured of salvation? As the Bible says, you are already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but you're also being saved (1 Cor. 1:18, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and you have the hope that you will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul you are working out your salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13).
Hold on....which is it? You cite 8:24 to say we are already saved yet in your paragraph before that you indicate it's a maybe proposition. It can't be both.
A believer is either saved or not.
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Well said!
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Yep, Peter’s view.
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>> “A believer is either saved or not.” <<
What is a believer, an intellectual believer like Satan and his demons? Or a true believer in the Hebrew disciple tradition, walking as his master walked, and doing his every commandment?
Nobody is saved until the day of Trumpets; that is what Yeshua and his apostles told us.
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