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Is There A Purgatory?
In Plain Site ^ | 02/26/2015 | Jason Engwer

Posted on 02/26/2015 1:41:17 PM PST by RnMomof7

"in purgatory the souls of those 'who died in the charity of God and truly repentant, but who had not made satisfaction with adequate penance for their sins and omissions,' are cleansed after death with punishments designed to purge away their debt." - Second Vatican Council, "Sacred Liturgy", "Apostolic Constitution on the Revision of Indulgences", no. 3

The Roman Catholic Church teaches that Christians may have to suffer in Purgatory before going to Heaven in order to complete the atonement for their sins. The Bible tells us, however, that Christ has already, by Himself, suffered to atone for all sins (Hebrews 1:3, Hebrews 9-10). The Catholic Church claims that a person can be forgiven of a sin, yet have to suffer to further atone for the "temporal" portion of that sin. Supposedly, the eucharist, an indulgence, or something else can be offered to complete the atonement for a sin that has been forgiven. Yet, the Bible teaches:

The concept of a person being forgiven of a sin, yet still needing to make offerings to atone for that sin, is contradicted by scripture. There are consequences to sin, and God disciplines His children (Hebrews 12:6-7), but never for atonement. Only Christ, the just, could suffer once and for all for the atonement of the unjust (1 Peter 3:18). Christians are already perfected (Hebrews 10:14) and complete (Colossians 2:10) in Christ, even before they've been completely sanctified. All suffering for atonement was accomplished by Christ Himself (Hebrews 9-10), eliminating any need for a Purgatory. The completion of the Christian's sanctification, which has nothing to do with atoning for sins, will take place "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye" (1 Corinthians 15:52). Christians are sanctified in this life, but that process of sanctification will abruptly be completed at the end of this life through God's power (1 Corinthians 15:52-53, Philippians 3:21), not through suffering in Purgatory.

The scriptures repeatedly refer to believers being at ease, experiencing peace, being with the Lord, etc. upon death or being raptured. Rather than suffering in Purgatory, believers are to expect to go to Heaven upon death or rapture:

The doctrine of Purgatory, like so much else the Roman Catholic Church teaches, was a gradual post-apostolic development. Though Catholic apologists often cite prayers for the dead as evidence of early belief in Purgatory, prayers for the dead are never encouraged in the hundreds of scriptural passages that mention prayer. And even the prayers for the dead that became popular in the early post-apostolic era don't support Purgatory. As William Webster explains in The Church of Rome at the Bar of History (Carlisle, Pennsylvania: The Banner of Truth Trust, 1995):

Though Catholic apologists often quote men like Tertullian and Origen referring to something resembling Purgatory, what they believed in was only an early form of the Roman Catholic doctrine of Purgatory, which would still take centuries longer to develop into what it is today. The earliest post-apostolic writers, who predate Tertullian and Origen by about a hundred years or more, had no concept of a Purgatory.

Clement of Rome, the earliest of the church fathers, writes about Peter, Paul, and some deceased Corinthian presbyters being in Heaven:

Papias, a Christian of the late first and early second centuries, wrote concerning Christians and the afterlife:

Papias refers to different degrees of reward in Heaven (1 Corinthians 3:11-15), but says nothing of Christians suffering in Purgatory.

Polycarp, a disciple of the apostle John, wrote:

When Polycarp died as a martyr, an account of his martyrdom was written and circulated among the churches afterward, part of which reads:

Catholic apologists may attempt to avoid the implications of these comments by suggesting that these people were viewed as going right to Heaven only because they died as martyrs. However, the concept that martyrs would not have to go to Purgatory is a later concept, one which we can't read back into the writings of this time. And not all of the people mentioned in the comments above died as martyrs anyway. The earliest post-apostolic Christians, like the apostolic Christians, did not believe in a Purgatory.

Catholics suggest that Purgatory is at least alluded to in passages such as Matthew 5:26, Matthew 12:32, 1 Corinthians 3:15, Colossians 1:24, and 1 Peter 3:19-20. Do such passages actually support Purgatory, though?

Matthew 5:26 is part of an analogy Jesus makes concerning the sin of hatred. Catholic apologists suggest that since Jesus refers to a person remaining in prison until he's "paid the last cent", that might be a reference to people suffering in Purgatory until their sins have been completely atoned for. But if Jesus is referring to the afterlife, as opposed to just referring to the consequences of sin in this life, He's referring to Hell, not Purgatory. In verse 22, He mentions Hell. Somebody who goes into eternity without having the sin of hatred atoned for would go to Hell, not any Purgatory. The person would indeed be there until he had "paid the last cent", but we know from other passages that the price is paid eternally (Matthew 25:46, Revelation 21:10).

Matthew 12:32 doesn't actually support Purgatory either. In the parallel passages in the other gospels (Mark 3:29, Luke 12:10), the sin is described as "never" being forgiven and "not" being forgiven. Obviously, the message is that blaspheming the Holy Spirit is an eternal sin. Many people believe, as I do, that this sin must be a rejection of Christ, since that's the only sin that would keep us from accepting forgiveness for every other sin. Just because Matthew 12:32 mentions that a sin won't be forgiven in the afterlife, that doesn't mean that people have an opportunity to have sins forgiven through Purgatory. The Catholic Church teaches that Purgatory is for the atonement of sins that are already forgiven, so the passage isn't even relevant.

1 Corinthians 3:15, another passage often cited in support of Purgatory, is about works being evaluated. Paul uses the imagery of fire, but the works are burned, not the person. Since Paul writes that even a person without any good works can be saved (1 Corinthians 3:15), as long as he's resting on the foundation of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 3:11), the passage actually contradicts Catholic teaching about salvation and works rather than supporting Catholic teaching about Purgatory.

Colossians 1:24 also has nothing to do with any Purgatory. Christ alone suffered once and for all to atone for all sins (Isaiah 53:5, 53:10-11, Hebrews 1:3, Hebrews 9-10, 1 Peter 3:18, 1 John 1:7). Christians are released from sin through His blood (Revelation 1:5). They don't have a shackle remaining on one of their legs that has to be burned away in Purgatory. What is Colossians 1:24 about, then? It's about Christ's ministerial suffering, not His redemptive suffering. In other words, Christ alone suffered for our redemption, but He didn't endure all of the suffering needed to accomplish everything that the church is to accomplish. In that regard, there is suffering that remains to be endured by individual Christians throughout history. John Walvoord and Roy Zuck write:

Warren Wiersbe writes:

William MacDonald writes in his Believer's Bible Commentary (Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson Publishers, Inc., 1995):

Catholic apologists often claim that they don't deny the sufficiency of Christ's finished work of redemption, yet their interpretation of Colossians 1:24 does deny it. Paul refers to something that is actually lacking in Christ's suffering. It isn't possible, then, to claim that Paul is referring to Christ's redemptive suffering while claiming, at the same time, that Christ's redemptive suffering is sufficient. The passage obviously has nothing to do with Christ's redemptive suffering, making it irrelevant to Purgatory, indulgences, and every other false doctrine for which Catholic apologists cite this passage as support.

1 Peter 3:19-20, though often cited in support of Purgatory, also fails to actually support the doctrine. This passage is one of the most controversial in all of the Bible. Nobody knows who the "spirits in prison" are. The passage may just mean that Christ told the souls in Hell about what He had accomplished at Calvary, which could have saved them if only they had believed. There are other possible interpretations as well. The reference in verse 20 to the people having been "disobedient" suggests that what's being discussed is Hell, not Heaven or any Purgatory. Whatever Peter is referring to, the passage isn't enough of a basis upon which to build a doctrine such as Purgatory, especially when so many other passages contradict the doctrine.

Catholic apologists anachronistically read Purgatory into passages of the New Testament, but none of the passages they cite actually support the concept. Other passages contradict the doctrine.

Not only is the doctrine of Purgatory not supported by anything Jesus and the apostles taught, but it also has led many people into disobeying God and following false gospels. The Protestant historian Philip Schaff wrote, concerning the selling of indulgences:

The truth is that there is no Purgatory. Even when the apostle Paul knew he was imperfect (Philippians 3:12), he knew he would go to be with the Lord when he died (Philippians 1:21-23). We read in scripture:

People go to Heaven because of what Christ has done for them, not because of what they've done for Christ. The ungodly person who believes in Christ while not working (Romans 4:5-6) is assured of avoiding God's wrath (Romans 5:9-10) as a free gift of God's grace (Romans 6:23). God invites anybody who thirsts to...



TOPICS: Apologetics; Evangelical Christian; Mainline Protestant; Theology
KEYWORDS: biblicallyfactual; christ; faith; salvation; truthful
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To: caww
I remember when I was about twelve years old and we were living at an Air Force base. My Mom was away and I decided to go to Mass by myself. Being that we were new to the base, I went to the only chapel there and thought I had timed it right for the Catholic Mass. When a man went to the pulpit and started speaking, I kept waiting for the priest to start, but he never came. I was mortified that I was sitting in on a Protestant service instead of Mass but I was too timid to get up and leave so I stayed. I honestly believed I had committed a mortal sin by not leaving.

Fast forward another decade, I am now a born again Christian out from under the Catholic church and going to Protestant/Evangelical services. When I would visit my Mom, we would go to Catholic Mass but I increasingly felt out-of-place there, that something was wrong and missing the genuine worship I had come to appreciate. I still drive my Mom to her weekly Mass, but I do not go in with her. It just doesn't "work" for me. This, by the way , was NOT something I consciously decided or felt I had to make a choice. It was an inward sense of the Holy Spirit steering me away from a false worship and into a genuine relationship with the living Savior.

101 posted on 02/27/2015 2:47:55 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: RnMomof7; CynicalBear
Do not hide your face from me, do not turn your servant away in anger; you have been my helper. Do not reject me or forsake me, God my Savior. (Psalm 27:9)

Do not hide your face from me when I am in distress. (Psalm 102:2)

102 posted on 02/27/2015 3:01:25 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums

I was raised as an Army Brat, and attended Protestant services around the world. They had slight variations depending on the celebrant. Since the Episcopal Church was the de facto church of the U.S. Army, many Protestant services were very similar to Morning Prayer, circa 1926 Book of Common Prayer. My experience led me to convert to the Episcopal Church from the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) a Presbyterian offshoot.

Fast forward to my experience as an Infantry Battalion Executive Officer in Germany. Our battalion chaplain was a Roman Catholic and native of Chile who spoke only broken English. My battalion commander was engaged in an ongoing dispute with our Commander, then Brigadier General Norman Schwartzkopf who expected all of his commanders to attend Protestant Chapel (we were both Episcopalian and I was a Vestryman of the Anglican parish across the Rhine in Wiesbaden). We decided to attend the Spanish Mass offered by our Chaplain early on Sunday mornings so that I could get to Morning Prayer in Wiesbaden and my battalion commander could thumb his nose at Schwartzkopf.

I found Mass to be a grand experience, even in Spanish. I am very attuned to Catholic liturgy, though not so much Catholic governance. I have since left the Episcopal Church because of their abandonment of belief in God, but I cannot embrace Catholicism. Our religious institutions have become barriers to our Christian beliefs and adherence to Scripture.


103 posted on 02/27/2015 3:40:16 PM PST by centurion316
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To: Rashputin; RnMomof7
And just where do the "Scripture Alone" folks claim Scripture says Luther, anti-Christ Pharisees, or individual Catholics, have the right to throw into the garbage what was accepted as Scripture when Christ was preaching and teaching? Right after the verse that says the Holy Spirit cannot and will not protect His Word from the inclusion of error?

First of all, NO ONE threw in the garbage those extra-canonical books - not even Luther, who also translated them in his German bible.

Second, there were FIFTEEN extra-canonical books in the Septuagint - more than the seven Trent decided were "officially" canonical. So, obviously, a book's presence in the Septuagint is NOT proof they were all from the Holy Spirit's inspiration.

Finally, there are numerous ERRORS in those extra seven books, NONE of them claim to be the word of the Lord, a few confirm that there WERE no prophets of the Lord in their time and one even states he is speaking his OWN thoughts and asks forgiveness for any mistakes he makes (the prologue of Sirach (Ecclesiasticus)). These were NOT the kinds of things true prophets of the Lord said. In fact, to attribute these books as from the Holy Spirit is the true blasphemy because it concludes He did not, or could not, protect the holy word of God.

From http://www.justforcatholics.org/a48.htm:

The apocrypha consists of 15 pieces of Jewish literature written around 200 years B.C. They are included with the Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures known as the Septuagint. Seven of these books (First and Second Maccabees, Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Baruch and Ecclesiasticus, also known as Sirach) and additions to Esther and Daniel, are considered canonical by the Roman Catholic Church. Protestants do not accept them as part of the Holy Scriptures.

R. K. Harrison explains: "Use of the term apocrypha to mean noncanonical goes back to the fifth century AD, when Jerome urged that the books found in the Septuagint and in the Latin Bibles that did not occur in the canon of the Hebrew Old Testament writings should be treated as apocryphal. They were not to be disregarded entirely, since they were part of the great contemporary outpouring of Jewish national literature. At the same time they should not be used as sources for Christian doctrine, but at best for supplementary reading of an uplifting and inspirational nature" [1]

These books do not make any claim to inspiration. On the contrary, the prologue of Sirach (Ecclesiasticus) asks pardon from the readers for all inexactitudes: "I entreat you... pardon us for those things wherein we may seem, while we follow the image of wisdom, to come short in the composition of words." The author of Maccabees concludes by saying, "I also will here make an end of my narration. Which if I have done well, and as it becometh the history, it is what I desired: but if not so perfectly, it must be pardoned me" (2 Maccabees 15:28, 39). That is not the language of divine inspiration!

First Maccabees notes that there were no prophets in Israel at that time (1 Maccabees 4:46; 9:27; 14:41). Since the New Testament frequently refers to the Scriptures as "the Law and the Prophets" (Matthew 5:17; 7:12; 11:13; 22:40; Luke 16:16; 24:44; John 1:45; Acts 13:15; 24:14; 28:23; Romans 3:21), how could a writing that specifically states that there were no prophets at the time when it was written be called Scripture?

What is more serious, the apocrypha teach doctrines that contradicts Scripture (see, for instance, Sirach 3:3,30, in contrast with Galatians 2:16,21; 3:10-14; Tobit 12:9 contradicts 1 John 1:7 and Hebrews 9:22; Wisdom 8:19,20 contradicts Romans 3:10). They encourage practices that do not conform to Scripture (Sirach 12:4-7 disagrees with Luke 6:27-38 and Matthew 5:43-48).

Recently, someone asked me, "I was on a Catholic website that claimed the book of Judith is a parable. So when it says Nebuchadnezzar is the leader of the Assyrians it's not to be taken literally. What do you think about this?" Well, I think the reason why we are advised that the Book of Judith should not be taken literally is quite simple. The introductory verse of the books states:

    "It was the twelfth year of the reign of Nebuchadnezzar, king of the Assyrians in the great city of Nineveh. At that time Arphaxad ruled over the Medes in Ecbatana."

But King Nebuchadnezzar was NOT the king of Assyria; he was the king of Babylon! (See, for example, 2 Kings 24:11 - "And Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came against the city, and his servants did besiege it") So, if we take Judith as a historical book, the evident historical blunder immediately undermines its supposed canonicity and inspiration.

The Catholic solution? Judith is not history - it is a parable! Even so, why should someone include evident historical stupidities in a parable? Imagine beginning a story like this: "When Sir Winston Churchill was President of the United States…" That does not give much credibility to your story, does it?

In the New Testament there are about 260 direct quotations from, and about 370 allusions to the books of the Old Testament. When Jesus and His apostles quote or allude to the Old Testament books, it is clear that they considered them authoritative and canonical. For example in John 10:34,35 the Lord Jesus quotes Psalm 82:6, and immediately comments that the scriptures cannot be broken. For the apostle Paul, "It is written" (in the Old Testament books) was the sure ground for his doctrinal teaching. Thus the New Testament testifies to divine authority of the Old Testament. Significantly there are no such quotations to the apocrypha that imply divine inspiration of these books. (See Are the Apocrypha Quoted in the New Testament?)

It must be stressed that these books were not considered canonical by the Jews. These books are written in Greek and are not part of the Massoretic Text, which are copies of the inspired Hebrew text of the Scriptures. The Jewish historian, Josephus, states as a matter of fact that the Jews considered only 22 books of divine origin (equivalent to 39 books in the Protestant Old Testament, since some of them - such as the minor prophets - were counted as one book). To this day, the Jews hold to the same canon held by Evangelicals. The rejection by the Jews of the apocrypha is very significant, because they were the people entrusted with the words of God.

"What advantage then hath the Jew?...Much every way: chiefly, because unto them were committed the oracles (words) of God" (Romans 3:1,2)

The church inherited the canonical books from God's Old Covenant people, the Jews. (God also gave the church additional books, the New Testament, which completes the Holy Bible). It does not make sense to make additions to the books of the Old Testament many centuries after the covenant with the Jewish people had given way to the new. The Church in the New Testament has no business adding to the canon of the Old Covenant Scriptures received by the Jews.

Indeed, many Christian leaders throughout church history taught that the Hebrew Bible consisted of 22 books. These correspond to the 39 books of the Old Testament of the Protestant Bible. (The numbers differ because some books, such as Samuel and Kings, are divided into two books, First and Second Samuel, etc, in the Protestant Bible). [2]

How then did the apocryphal writings find their way in the Catholic Bible? Early in the second century, the first Latin translations of the Bible were done from the Septuagint (which included the apocrypha). There was a conflict between the great Fathers, Augustine and Jerome, regarding the value of the apocrypha. Augustine accepted them because he used the Septuagint which contained these books and which was popular in North Africa. Jerome was one of the few Fathers who knew both Greek and Hebrew, and he rejected the apocrypha because he knew that those books were not accepted by the Jews and were not part of the Hebrew Scriptures.

Greatly influenced by Augustine, the provincial councils of Hippo and Carthage in the fourth century included the apocrypha as part of the Old Testament canon. However, we must add that contrary to the impression given by Catholic apologists, the apocrypha were not officially recognized by the Catholic church as canonical at Hippo and Carthage. The apocrypha were finally added to the Old Testament by the Catholic Church at the Council of Trent in the 16th century. Moreover the canon approved by Carthage is different from that approved by Trent. The Council of Trent omits the Septuagint First Esdras which had been included by Carthage; while Second Esdras (Ezra and Nehemiah combined in a single book in the Septuagint) were distinguished as two separate books (First Esdras and Second Esdras, also known as Nehemiah).

Up to the time of the Reformation, they were not generally regarded as canonical books on the same level as the Old Testament Scripture. "St Jerome distinguished between canonical books and ecclesiastical books. The latter he judged were circulated by the Church as good spiritual reading but were not recognized as authoritative Scripture" (The New Catholic Encyclopaedia, The Canon).

Pope Gregory the Great says this about the apocrypha: "…we are not acting irregularly, if from the books, though not canonical, yet brought out for the edification of the Church, we bring forth testimony" (Moral Teachings Drawn from Job; 19, 34).

After listing the canonical books of the Scriptures, St Athanasius wrote: "There are other books besides the aforementioned, which, however, are not canonical. Yet, they have been designated by the Fathers to be read by those who join us and who wish to be instructed in the word of piety: the Wisdom of Solomon; and the Wisdom of Sirach; and Esther; and Judith; and Tobias..." (Thirty-ninth festal letter, 367).

Cardinal Cajetan, a leading Roman Catholic scholar at the time of the Reformation in the sixteenth century, clearly states that the apocryphal books are not canonical and cannot be used to confirm matters of faith. (See St Jerome and the Apocrypha). "Even on the eve of the council [of Trent] the Catholic view was not absolutely unified...Catholic editions of the Bible published in Germany and in France in 1527 and 1530 contained only the protocanonical books" [3] i.e. the list of Old Testament books of these Catholic Bibles was identical to the Hebrew and Protestant Bibles.

Following the Lord Jesus, His apostles and the writers of the New Testament, we often refer and quote from the books of the Old Testament to establish our faith, and like them we never use the apocrypha for that purpose.

104 posted on 02/27/2015 4:28:09 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums

....”This, by the way , was NOT something I consciously decided or felt I had to make a choice. It was an inward sense of the Holy Spirit steering me away from a false worship and into a genuine relationship with the living Savior”....

Remarkable that as young as you were you opted to navigate yourself to church...also interesting that even so young God was showing you the way to go.

Good story Boatbums.....That inward sense is often denied by catholics and others when the Holy Spirit is operating within.. or pushed back...you paid attention to that discomfort.


105 posted on 02/27/2015 6:35:28 PM PST by caww
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To: CynicalBear

....”I understood long ago that it was I who would stand alone before that throne and not in some group that I had signed allegiance to. It’s Chris alone who I look to, no some organization run by fallible man”....

I can relate to that as well...It was because I pulled away from two opposing churches... and got with the Lord and His Word alone that He began to teach me in remarkable ways. I wanted to know not who was being truthful...but what did God himself want me to know.

I remember so well sitting down that first day and saying to God that He said He would teach me and I was there at the moment to be taught by Him. .....it took more than one setting but each time I did so I found myself not wanting to stop as HE opened His Word more and more...and I knew HE was indeed teaching me.....and HE does so still to this very day! Amen!!!

I’ve been to many churches in my life as I’ve moved often....But with that I also knew each church I attended was to worship Him and listen to what He might have to say. Many were worldly....others dead...but those that were ‘centered’ on Jesus Christ and His Word were wonderful to attend, and I would always learn more about Jesus and love Him all the more for having been there among them.

Jesus said we were not to forske the gathering of ourselves together..as some do...and there is something remarkable when we are among the body of believers...His church....no matter what denomination they might be.


106 posted on 02/27/2015 6:50:59 PM PST by caww
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To: boatbums

Bump


107 posted on 02/27/2015 7:00:02 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: boatbums
Anyone who falls for and repeats the lie (in the many various forms it takes) that the anti-Christ Pharisees and/or Martin Luther are perfect but the imperfect Holy Spirit cannot and did not protect His Holy Word from the inclusion of error is just proving they're under the strong delusion that will lead them to their own destruction.

Such a strong self-delusion in no way mitigates their blaspheming of the Holy Spirit.

Apparently part and parcel of the currently espoused delusion is that the New Testament is wrong to praise the Greek Bereans who studied the entire Old Testament rather than praising the anti-Christ Pharisees who the "Scripture Alone" crowd accept as their highest authority in all things Scriptural.

108 posted on 02/28/2015 12:34:59 AM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: metmom
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109 posted on 02/28/2015 4:40:45 AM PST by verga (I might as well be playing Chess with a pigeon.)
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To: Rashputin
...what was accepted as Scripture when Christ was preaching and teaching?

Accepted by WHOM at this time?


What was 'accepted' by JEWS that ROME tossed out?

110 posted on 02/28/2015 5:02:09 AM PST by Elsie
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To: L,TOWM; IWONDR; Normandy; teppe; WilliamRobert; FatherofFive

Trinity all the way, ma’am. Father God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.

It's no WONDER that Mormons are confused over this!!



 

Trinity:

 

found in the Book of MORMON        -----------   rejected in the Doctrines and Covenants 

Book of Mormon:

Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God? And he answered, No. (Alma 11:28-29)

...and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil. (Alma 11:44)

...doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen. (2 Nephi 31:21)

...praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end. (Mormon 7:7)

...power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son--And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth. And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, (Mosiah 15:3-5)

...of Jared, that whoso should possess this land of promise, from that time henceforth and forever, should serve him, the true and only God, or they should be swept off when the fulness of his wrath should come upon them. (Ether 2:8)


"Behold, I am Jesus Christ the Son of God. I created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. I was with the Father from the beginning. I am in the Father, and the Father in me; and in me hath the Father glorified his name." (3 Nephi 9:15)


"And again the Lord called others, and said unto them likewise; and he gave unto them power to baptize. And he said unto them: On this wise shall ye baptize; and there shall be no disputations among you. Verily I say unto you, that whoso repenteth of his sins through your words and desireth to be baptized in my name, on this wise shall ye baptize them--Behold, ye shall go down and stand in the water, and in my name shall ye baptize them. And now behold, these are the words which ye shall say, calling them by name, saying: Having authority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. And then shall ye immerse them in the water, and come forth again out of the water. And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one...And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one." (3 Nephi 11:22-27, 36)

Doctrine and Covenants:

According to that which was ordained in the midst of the Council of the Eternal God of all other gods before this world was, that should be reserved unto the finishing and the end thereof, when every man shall enter into his eternal presence and into his immortal rest. (Section 121:32)

And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that covenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God. And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them--Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths--then shall it be written in the Lamb's Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever. Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them. (Section 132:18-20)

Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods. (Section 132:37)

 

 

111 posted on 02/28/2015 5:07:49 AM PST by Elsie
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To: centurion316
Our religious institutions have become barriers to our Christian beliefs and adherence to Scripture.

Shout it from the rooftops!


112 posted on 02/28/2015 5:09:48 AM PST by Elsie
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To: boatbums
Second, there were FIFTEEN extra-canonical books in the Septuagint - more than the seven Trent decided were "officially" canonical.

OOOoops!

113 posted on 02/28/2015 5:10:43 AM PST by Elsie
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To: verga
. . .
114 posted on 02/28/2015 5:16:34 AM PST by Elsie
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To: boatbums

Well done! Thank you for posting that.


115 posted on 02/28/2015 5:27:16 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: Elsie
Along with the assertion that Scripture erred by praising Greek Bereans rather than anti-Christ Pharisees we now also hear that books which were never considered inspired were counted as being inspired by those perfect Pharisees the "Scripture Alone" trust above Christ, the Apostles, and the Holy Spirit.

Anyone who falls for and repeats the lie (in any of the many various forms it takes) that the anti-Christ Pharisees and/or Martin Luther are perfect but the imperfect Holy Spirit cannot and did not protect His Holy Word from the inclusion of error is just proving they're under the strong delusion that will lead them to their own destruction.

Such a strong self-delusion in no way mitigates their blaspheming of the Holy Spirit.

116 posted on 02/28/2015 7:13:07 AM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: RnMomof7

This isn’t it?


117 posted on 02/28/2015 7:14:12 AM PST by onedoug
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To: boatbums

Well done, but I fear it will be lost on those who are determined to undermine the authority and integrity of Scripture.


118 posted on 03/01/2015 5:24:15 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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