The Gospel in Church History part 4

So it’s “satan” who says that those who do good works will go to heaven, and those who do not do good works will go to hell?

That’s an interesting position, because it’s the opposite of what Jesus says in Saint Matthew’s gospel.

But then, what does Jesus Christ know about Christianity?

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

So it’s “satan” who says that those who do good works will go to heaven, and those who do not do good works will go to hell? That’s an interesting position, because it’s the opposite of what Jesus says in Saint Matthew’s gospel. But then, what does Jesus Christ know about Christianity?

Jesus knows EVERYTHING about Christianity! I'm surprised you don't know that. So does the Apostle Paul, to whom Jesus revealed the gospel of the grace of God which is the good news that we do not obtain salvation on the basis of our good works. That's why it would be the devil who perverts the good news by convincing souls they can earn or merit their salvation by the works they do. Such a "gospel" would condemn the person who believed that because they would not be depending upon Jesus Christ as their savior, preferring to trust their own merit.

Regarding those who go about trying to establish their own righteousness, Paul wrote:

For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes...(Romans 1:2-4)

The passages you quote out of context don't prove what you say they do. The "sheep" and the "goats" went into that judgment already either a sheep or a goat. This judgment didn't determine that. Sheep do what sheep do and goats do what goats do. Which one are you?

Jesus, of course, knows before the actual Judgment who is going to be damned and who is going to saved. It is Jesus who separates the sheep from the goats.

I would like to see some evidence that the separation into sheep and goats is the consequence of some criterion OTHER THAN and PRIOR TO the criterion “you fed me, you clothed me” and “you did not feed me, you did not clothe me.” So far, I’ve seen it asserted, but without any evidence.

Rnmomof7 already explained this very well to you in posts #25 and #44. I seriously doubt you will accept anything else I might add - you apparently already have your mind made up.

Nah, He won’t come like a thief. You guys have it figured to the day.

Well, Harold Camping thought he had it figured to the day, three different times. I wonder if we could consider him a false prophet? Do I have to ping him if I use his name?

:-)

I just re-read #25 and #44.

In all the Scriptures quoted, there is not a SYLLABLE saying anything about “sheep” and “goats.”

There are statements that we must believe in Christ, and there are statements about people who do good works, and people who do bad works, and what will happen to them.

But there is not one SYLLABLE in any of the Scripture verses quoted that supports sola fide.

I am afraid that some people’s brains are so stuffed with “faith-without-works-is-what-the-gospel-is-all-about” that they see it everywhere they look—even when it is NOWHERE.

I once sat through a sermon in a Missouri Synod Lutheran church, in which four miracles of Jesus were preached on, and the “message” of ALL FOUR of the gospel passages was that “Jesus is warning the blind man/the leper/the deaf man/ etc., etc. of the pitfalls of works-righteousness.”

If THOSE are the Scriptures that are supposed to “prove” that the Last Judgment is about some criterion OTHER than “you fed me, etc.,” or “you did not feed me, etc.,” then it’s as I suspected:

To the man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

>>I wonder if we could consider him a false prophet?<<

Both him and that Michael Rood fake.

In all the Scriptures quoted, there is not a SYLLABLE saying anything about “sheep” and “goats.” There are statements that we must believe in Christ, and there are statements about people who do good works, and people who do bad works, and what will happen to them. But there is not one SYLLABLE in any of the Scripture verses quoted that supports sola fide.

Go back and look again. I just reread Rnmomof7's comments at posts #25 and #44 and it's ALL about what Jesus was teaching concerning the last judgment. IN NO CASE does Jesus ever say it is the works of the sheep OR goats that determined their eternal destination - they went into that judgment already a sheep or a goat. What they did, how they lived, demonstrated that.

I guess for those whose brains are so stuffed with "faith AND works is what saves" (and their own pride in their deserving merits and righteousness) they see it everywhere they look - even when it is NOWHERE.

Correct

In all the Scriptures quoted, there is not a SYLLABLE saying anything about “sheep” and “goats.” There are statements that we must believe in Christ, and there are statements about people who do good works, and people who do bad works, and what will happen to them. But there is not one SYLLABLE in any of the Scripture verses quoted that supports sola fide.

My mistake..I figured a "priest" would know that scripture .. and if not look it up...For your reading pleasure

The Sheep and the Goats

31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Footnotes:

I wasn’t talking abou Jesus’ account of the last judgment. I was talking about a bunch of OTHER Scriptures you quoted. None of THEM mentioned the sheep and the goats.

Nor did any of them support the bizarre claim that the last judgment, as described by Jesus in Matt. 25, is based on sola fide.