The Absurdity of Separated Brethren

Beggars All ^ | February 11, 2009 | "carrie"

[RnMomof7]

The Absurdity of Separated Brethren

Before Protestants were "separated brethren"...

Q. Does the Lord make use of apostate Catholics, such as Martin Luther, Calvin, John Knox, Henry VIII., King of England, to reform the manners of the people?

A. The thought is absurd. The lives of those men were evil, and it is only the devil that makes use of them to pervert the people still more. The Lord makes use of His saints, such as a St. Francis of Assisium, a St. Dominick, a St. Ignatius, a St. Alphonsus, to convert the people and reform their evil manners by explaining to them the truths of faith, the commandments, and the necessity of receiving the sacraments with proper dispositions, and by setting them in their own lives the loftiest example of faith, purity, and all Christian virtues.

Q. Are there any other reasons to show that heretics, or Protestants who die out of the Roman Catholic Church, are not saved?

A. There are several. They cannot be saved, because

1. They have no divine faith.

2. They make a liar of Jesus Christ, of the Holy Ghost, and of the Apostles.

3. They have no faith in Christ.

4. They fell away from the true Church of Christ.

5. They are too proud to submit to the Pope, the Vicar of Christ.

6. They cannot perform any good works whereby they can obtain heaven.

7. They do not receive the Body and Blood of Christ.

8. They die in their sins.

9. They ridicule and blaspheme the Mother of God and His saints.

10. They slander the spouse of Jesus Christ —:the Catholic Church.

Q. What is the act of faith of a Protestant?

A. O my God, I believe nothing except what my own private judgment tells me to believe; therefore I believe that I can interpret Thy written word—the Holy Scriptures —as I choose. I believe that the Pope is anti-Christ; that any man can be saved, provided he is an honest man; I believe that faith alone is sufficient for salvation; that good works, and works of penance, and the confession of sins are not necessary, etc.

Q. Have Protestants any faith in Christ?

A. They never had.

Q. Why not?

A. Because there never lived such a Christ as they imagine and believe in.

Q. In what kind of a Christ do they believe?

A. In such a one of whom they can make a liar, with impunity, whose doctrine they can interpret as they please, and who does not care about what a man believes, provided he be an honest man before the public.

Q. Will such a faith in such a Christ save Protestants?

A. No sensible man will assert such an absurdity.

Familiar Explanation of Christian Doctrine
For the Family and More Advanced Students in Catholic Schools (1875)
(pgs 70, 91-93, 97-98; with imprimatur)

\e="author "name">Carrie at

4:33 PM

[Big Red Badger]

Yup,

[editor-surveyor]

.
The LXX is not the word of God!

It is a clumsy translation of the ancient Hebrew scriptures, done by Rabbis in the mid second temple period for a handful of Hebrews that lived in Alexandria, and whose birth language was Greek, rather than the Hebrew spoken by the rest of ‘Israel.’

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[daniel1212]

What has the Catholic Church always taught and still does, despite bad popes?

That is not a valid argument as what the Catholic Church has always taught is itself subject to interpretations, resulting in sects such as what you represent. You have a limited, infallible class of teachings on paper, while both what these all consist on and their meanings, as well as those of the rest can be subject to divisive interpretations. Meanwhile what one does and effects constitutes the evidence of what one really believes.

Regarding interpretation, among other things , Vatican 2 interpreted extra Ecclesiam nulla salus - an infallible teaching according to most - differently than what is most plainly conveyed and was historically held in past times.

Moreover, V2 itself is subject to variant interpretations, and as a result of what some understandably see as changes, then the schismatic SSPV and SSPX sects, and those who informally belong to them, interpret parts of V2 as not binding. Likewise the nature and meanings of encyclicals and bulls etc, are also subject to interpretation.

In addition, Rome shows what she really believes by what she does and effects, which partly is shown by treating even proabortion, prohomo, promuslim pols are members in life and in death, as well as their known supporters, which speaks louder than some paper statements, which thus fosters more RC supporters of such.

For souls look for the meaning of what is preached by how the preachers translated it into action, to which Rome directs the faithful to look, not that of examining evidences in order to ascertain the veracity of RC teaching.

RCs are told that

"the Church is essentially an unequal society, that is, a society comprising two categories of per sons, the Pastors and the flock...the one duty of the multitude is to allow themselves to be led, and, like a docile flock, to follow the Pastors. (VEHEMENTER NOS, an Encyclical of Pope Pius X promulgated on February 11, 1906),

“All that we do [as must be patent enough now] is to submit our judgment and conform our beliefs to the authority Almighty God has set up on earth to teach us; this, and nothing else.” (Henry G. Graham, "What Faith Really Means", (Nihil Obstat:C. SCHUT, S. T.D., Censor Deputatus, Imprimatur: EDM. CANONICUS SURMONT, D.D.,Vicarius Generalis. WESTMONASTERII, Die 30 Septembris, 1914 ); http://www.catholictradition.org /Tradition/faith2-10.htm]

"The intolerance of the Church toward error, the natural position of one who is the custodian of truth, her only reasonable attitude makes her forbid her children to read or to listen to heretical controversy, or to endeavor to discover religious truths by examining both sides of the question. This places the Catholic in a position whereby he must stand aloof from all manner of doctrinal teaching other than that delivered by his Church through her accredited ministers." (John H. Stapleton, Explanation of Catholic Morals, Chapters XIX, XXIII. the consistent believer (1904); Nihil Obstat. Remy Lafort, Censor Librorum. Imprimatur, John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York ;

To do as your sect does, that of determining obedience based upon your interpretation of which RC teaching is authentic and its meaning, is to do what RCs censure evangelicals for doing in the light of Scripture.

Finally, comparing one particular church with a variety of churches loosely defines under one name is not a valid comparison, while comparing then according to their fundamental distinctive basis for determining Truth would be.

And it remains that evangelicals, which hold most strongly to the Prot distinctive of Scripture being emphasized as the wholly inspired and accurate word of God, are the most unified large religious group in conservative moral values and many basic beliefs. While liberal Prots are closer to RCs overall, which their churches also tend to be in doctrine.

You should know, having left it.

Indeed.

[ravenwolf]

2. They make a liar of Jesus Christ, of the Holy Ghost, and of the Apostles.

---

Douay-Rheims Bible translated into English from the Catholic vulgate.

8 But be not you called Rabbi. For one is your master; and all you are brethren.

9 And call none your father upon earth; for one is your father, who is in heaven.

The Catholics makes a liar out of Jesus Christ by calling the priests father.

We can argue all day about exactly what Paul meant but we need not do that because Jesus told us in plain words not to call any man on earth father.

Did Paul say different? if he did he was wrong.

Peter said a few words regarding Paul in 2 Peter 3:16

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Is this what is wrong with not only the Catholic Church but in many cases some of the protestant Churches?

[daniel1212]

Oooh look! The latest in anti-Catholic porn, so pathetically typical of FR lately.

Actually, this is not porn, but properly sanctioned Catholic material, and evangelical postings were invited. When we chastened RCs for their incessant posting of RCs news and propaganda, some responded that we should be posting more of our own. So a couple of RC posters have occasional done so, while the vast majority of religion articles are from RCs. And it is not use who promote an elitist church, but cultic RCs.

[ravenwolf]

I got sick of the rotten fruit of the protestants!

I got sick of a pastor who told me all other “churches” were going to hell that did not believe in our churches doctrine,

---

By reading the thread it looks to me like you joined a Church just like the one you left, read what they said about the other Churches,.

[editor-surveyor]

.
Churchianity, trying to stomp out Christianity.

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[defconw]

Just ignore it. 1785? Really? Cherry picked. Didn't bother to read the whole book. Never do. They must convince themselves on a daily basis that they are right and superior. A need that arises out of doubt. They doubt otherwise they would not work so hard to convince us that we are the ones that are wrong.

Mary Keep You!

[xone]

Their services are almost identical to Catholics.

And it what way do they differ?

[ravenwolf]

Churchianity, trying to stomp out Christianity.

---

Sure looks like it.

[delchiante]

Studying the ancient Hebrew letters that count up to value 666 is an interesting study for people who recognize the ‘sign of the cross’.
Actually, it would be an interesting study/exercise for all Christians..

Tav/Taw- numeric value 400- meaning sign, mark, cross
Resh. - numeric value 200- meaning forehead
Kaph/kaf -numeric value 20- palm of hand/sole of foot
Kaph/kaf -numeric value 20- palm of hand/sole of foot
Kaph/kaf -numeric value 20- palm of hand/sole of foot
Waw/vav. -numeric value 6- tent peg, spike

Six hundred threescore and six... in Hebrew... If people count using Hebrew there certainly is a picture that forms when trying to calculate the number of the beast..

Not sure what catholics or protestants would think about this...

[Wyrd bið ful aræd]

And yet the NT quotes it 340 times.

[Morgana]

“So you believe it is your own works that save you even though the Bible repeatedly says it isn’t?”

The bible says it isn’t??? try reading the book of James. You know, the book Martin Luther wanted to throw out. You know, the book Martin Luther called the “epistle of straw.”

Now this is in the New king james version so I hope you won’t go into raptures over that...but here it is...

Faith Without Works Is Dead

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my[b] works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

************************************************************************************

See nice religion you Protestants have. You just have to have “faith alone” (sola fide) or the bible alone (sola scriptura) wish makes no sense to me because you never read ALL of it. Hence you don’t have to do anything. Just have faith and Don’t have to “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling”
(Philippians 2 12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; )

So go on believe Martin Luther’s lies. You never wonder why he wanted to throw out the book of James? Maybe it’s so I could not point out this verse to you right now. Does not matter you won’t believe it anyway.

[NKP_Vet]

Catholics observe seven sacraments, seven central rituals of the church: Baptism, Confirmation, Eucharist (Holy Communion), Penance (or Reconciliation), Anointing of the Sick, Holy Orders, and Matrimony. While Lutherans practice all those seven rituals, they only call two of them sacraments (Baptism and Eucharist).

Catholics enjoy the intercession of the Saints and the honoring of Mary. Lutherans aren’t against those, but it isn’t part of what Lutherans practice.

Catholics acknowledge two authorities for their faith and life: The Bible and Church Tradition. Lutherans view the Bible as the only authority for our faith and life.

Catholics honor and obey the priests, bishops, archbishops, cardinals, and the pope who interpret Church Tradition; decisions come down from those in higher authority. Lutherans tend to view the local congregation, coming together in democratic voting, as the primary decision-making body.

Finally, Under Canon Law, the Lutheran Episcopal line is no longer valid, so their priests are not validly ordained, thus Lutheran Communion is not, in the eyes of the Catholic Church, the Body and Blood of Christ. The Reformation and breakaway from the Catholic Church ended apostolic sucession for Lutherans and all other protestants.

[RnMomof7]

Ahhh, yes. Seems to be a case of projection to me... First, unsaved, apostate heretics because we left the Roman Catholic Cult. Then, we’re “separated brethren.”

Politically correct ya know

[RnMomof7]

Agreed, the men that led us out of Rome warned us of this ...and now it is reality

[RnMomof7]

My church was founded by Christ on Christ ... HE is the Cornerstone..the solid Rock ... “On Christ the solid Rock i stand..all other ground is sinking sand

[RnMomof7]

I was taught how hard it is to be a saint.

That is truly sad..

8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Romans 3:20,27,28 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified …

[ravenwolf]

Yes, although God used the Church to spread his Gospel, in many cases he brought the Gospel to us in spite of the Church.

If it had not of been for the roman church we may not have had a Bible but just bits and pieces of the gospel.

But what good is the Bible if only a few of the hierarchy are the only ones who read it as was the case during the holy roman empire.

Jesus said that his Gospel would be preached in all nations.

Up until the reformation the Gospel was not preached but only Church doctrine, (at least that is my understanding of history and the very reason for the split between the Church and the Catholics who believed the Gospel should be preached.)

So while I believe that God had a use for the Catholic Church he also had a reason for the reformation neither one is a tower unto themselves.

The Catholic Church will say that they are the only ones who are allowed to interpret scripture, what part of scripture needs an interpretation?

Here is the scripture they use to supposedly justify their argument.

2 Peter 1
20 Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation.

21 For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost.

But it really has nothing to do with any one reading the bible for them selves.

If we read the prior verses it shows that peter was saying that the things he and the other apostles wrote about the life, death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus was not their private interpretation.

12 For which cause I will begin to put you always in remembrance of these things: though indeed you know them, and are confirmed in the present truth.

13 But I think it meet as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance.

16 For we have not by following artificial fables, made known to you the power, and presence of our Lord Jesus Christ; but we were eyewitnesses of his greatness.

17 For he received from God the Father, honour and glory: this voice coming down to him from the excellent glory: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

18 And this voice we heard brought from heaven, when we were with him in the holy mount.

Looks to me like peter was just assuring them that what was written about Jesus was of God and not of them selves.

[RnMomof7]

I still try to remember to pray for you everyday, Mom.

While you are praying...ask God to lead you to all truth :)