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Pagan Saints
The Cripplegate ^ | July 19,2012 | Nathan Busenitz

Posted on 01/21/2015 4:47:04 PM PST by RnMomof7

As a church history professor, I am sometimes asked how certain practices developed in church history. For example: When did the Roman Catholic (and Eastern Orthodox) emphasis on praying to saints and venerating relics and icons begin?

A somewhat obscure, but extremely helpful, book by John Calvin answers that question directly.

In his work, A Treatise on Relics, Calvin utilizes his extensive knowledge of church history to demonstrate that prayers to the saints, prayers for the dead, the veneration of relics, the lighting of candles (in homage to the saints), and the veneration of icons are all rooted in Roman paganism. Such practices infiltrated the Christian church after Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire in the fourth century.

Here is an excerpt from Calvin’s work that summarizes his thesis:

Hero-worship is innate to human nature, and it is founded on some of our noblest feelings, — gratitude, love, and admiration, — but which, like all other feelings, when uncontrolled by principle and reason, may easily degenerate into the wildest exaggerations, and lead to most dangerous consequences. It was by such an exaggeration of these noble feelings that [Roman] Paganism filled the Olympus with gods and demigods, — elevating to this rank men who have often deserved the gratitude of their fellow-creatures, by some signal services rendered to the community, or their admiration, by having performed some deeds which required a more than usual degree of mental and physical powers.

The same cause obtained for the Christian martyrs the gratitude and admiration of their fellow-Christians, and finally converted them into a kind of demigods. This was more particularly the case when the church began to be corrupted by her compromise with Paganism [during the fourth and fifth-centuries], which having been baptized without being converted, rapidly introduced into the Christian church, not only many of its rites and ceremonies, but even its polytheism, with this difference, that the divinities of Greece and Rome were replaced by Christian saints, many of whom received the offices of their Pagan predecessors.

The church in the beginning tolerated these abuses, as a temporary evil, but was afterwards unable to remove them; and they became so strong, particularly during the prevailing ignorance of the middle ages, that the church ended up legalizing, through her decrees, that at which she did nothing but wink at first.

In a footnote, Calvin gives specific examples of how Christians saints simply became substitutes for pagan deities.

Thus St. Anthony of Padua restores, like Mercury, stolen property; St. Hubert, like Diana, is the patron of sportsmen; St. Cosmas, like Esculapius, that of physicians, etc. In fact, almost every profession and trade, as well as every place, have their especial patron saint, who, like the tutelary divinity of the Pagans, receives particular hours from his or her protégés.

You can read the entire work on Google Books.

Calvin’s treatment includes a historical overview, quotes from the church fathers, and even citations from sixteenth-century Roman Catholic scholars. The result is an air-tight case for the true origin of many Catholic practices.

Calvin’s conclusion is that these practices are nothing more than idolatrous superstitions, rooted in ancient Roman paganism. Even today, five centuries later, his work still serves as a necessary warning to those who persist in such idolatry. Hence his concluding sentence: “Now, those who fall into this error must do so willingly, as no one can from henceforth plead ignorance on the subject as their excuse.”


TOPICS: Apologetics; General Discusssion; Mainline Protestant; Theology
KEYWORDS: canonization; catholic; catholicbashing; idoltery; reformation
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To: CynicalBear
Answer the question. Why would the Christians in India evangelized by St. Thomas the Apostle adopt *Roman* paganism?
61 posted on 01/21/2015 6:30:57 PM PST by Claud
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To: Claud

“Oh we can all bask in these vague conspiracy theories, but it’s quite another matter to cite a primary source to back it up.”

No problem.

It ain’t in God’s inspired Scriptures - none of it.
It didn’t exist before 100 ad - so it isn’t the Apostle’s Teaching or tradition.
Ergo, it came from outside the church.

“Go find a writer from the 4th century who saw this happening and said something about it. Go ahead. I’ll wait. “

Not necessary. You can research paganism in that era and after you read about it, just ask yourself this question:

If it didn’t come from God, how did it get into the church?


62 posted on 01/21/2015 6:31:49 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion ( "I didn't leave the Central Oligarchy Party. It left me." - Ronaldus Maximus)
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To: Claud
Calvin was a devotee of St. Augustine....did he not read St. Augustine's homilies on the feast days of the saints?

On Sundays, I used to read the comics but never was much of a cartoonist.

If the ancient, pure religion was corrupted by Roman paganism...and "syncretistic" practices were introduced, then why in Sam Hill did none of the ancient writers complain about it?

You mean like the Holy Spirit wrote via John in The Revelation of Jesus Christ? To the seven churches in Asia?

Let's face it: paganism is paganism whether it started in Rome or Babylon or earlier.
63 posted on 01/21/2015 6:31:52 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: Arthur McGowan

I hope your series of links has St Barbara. Know the story well as an Artilleryman I am a recipient of the order of St Barbara.


64 posted on 01/21/2015 6:32:12 PM PST by redleghunter (Your faith has saved you. Go in peace. (Luke 7:50))
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To: MamaB

Worse then yucky MamaB.........why would the membership not speak out against this form of idolatry? It’s obviously offensive and sacrilegious. But then the obvious escapes them because it’s leadership, as with so much of their false teaching, determines what is catholic and what is not.

Strikes me that here on FR they can see the falsehood and fiction of Obama...but within their church they cannot determine it’s fraud.


65 posted on 01/21/2015 6:32:36 PM PST by caww
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To: Resettozero
No, they don't talk back to us.

In the case of Mother Cabrini, their intercession can lead to the regeneration of chemically-destroyed eyeballs.

See the case of Peter Smith.

66 posted on 01/21/2015 6:33:02 PM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Claud
>>Why would the Christians in India evangelized by St. Thomas the Apostle adopt *Roman* paganism? Why would the Christians in India evangelized by St. Thomas the Apostle adopt *Roman* paganism?<<

Check out what Christ said to the seven churches in Revelation to see how soon they went off track. For that matter Paul already had a church off track.

67 posted on 01/21/2015 6:33:50 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
Augustine was born after syncretic paganism was incorporated into catholicism.

Oh, so Augustine was bang on when it came to Grace, but was an idolater? Dang, Calvin was more daft than I thought.

If I do nothing else this thread I'm not going let this unmitigated lie masquerade as a historical fact. If you make a claim like this you back it up with primary sources.

When exactly was paganism incorporated? I want dates. I want names. I want places. I want 4th century authors who describe this process at work.

68 posted on 01/21/2015 6:37:36 PM PST by Claud
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To: DuncanWaring
In the case of Mother Cabrini, their intercession can lead to the regeneration of chemically-destroyed eyeballs. See the case of Peter Smith.

No thanks on the link, but whose intercession are you referring to?

Already familiar with enough of how Santería "works".
69 posted on 01/21/2015 6:38:49 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: caww

Because they are afraid to rock the boat. They have to believe everything Rome says or they go to hell. I really feel sorry for them. I am way too curious to believe everything I am told or things I read. I want to know who, what, when, where and how. Guess I should add another one, why.


70 posted on 01/21/2015 6:38:57 PM PST by MamaB
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To: redleghunter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Barbara


71 posted on 01/21/2015 6:39:05 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: RnMomof7

It’s not not just Roman pganism.

The similarities to Buddhist ritual is very strong.

The role given Mary is analogous to Guan Yin.

I think it was something that came with the growth and spread of Christianity.


72 posted on 01/21/2015 6:40:07 PM PST by ifinnegan
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To: CynicalBear
Check out what Christ said to the seven churches in Revelation to see how soon they went off track. For that matter Paul already had a church off track.

Yeah and you know how we know that? Because Paul wrote letters to them.

Now go find me a letter written by a 4th century author telling everyone else to knock off this "saint worship" that was allegedly just creeping into the Church.

73 posted on 01/21/2015 6:40:50 PM PST by Claud
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To: Claud
When exactly was paganism incorporated? I want dates. I want names. I want places. I want 4th century authors who describe this process at work.

Let bygones be bygones. It's time to advance into 5th century scholarship, don't you think.
74 posted on 01/21/2015 6:40:57 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: Claud
" Oh, so Augustine was bang on when it came to Grace, but was an idolater? Dang, Calvin was more daft than I thought."

Like most of the "fathers", sometimes he was right and sometimes he was wrong.

"If I do nothing else this thread I'm not going let this unmitigated lie masquerade as a historical fact. If you make a claim like this you back it up with primary sources."

If your truth claim is that it is a lie, prove it. Go to the entire book Calvin wrote - linked in the article - and go to his sources.

"When exactly was paganism incorporated? I want dates. I want names. I want places. I want 4th century authors who describe this process at work. "

Do you want to be spoon-fed too? Go to the primary source quoted and read.

75 posted on 01/21/2015 6:41:40 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion ( "I didn't leave the Central Oligarchy Party. It left me." - Ronaldus Maximus)
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To: Resettozero

Whose intercession? The team of God and Mother Cabrini.

Regarding the link, I provided information to back-up my assertion. If you wish to ignore it, it’s your loss, not mine.


76 posted on 01/21/2015 6:42:06 PM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: DuncanWaring; Resettozero

I thought Catholics had the book in their Bible that tells them to smear fish entrails on their eyes. Wait, that’s for cataracts right?


77 posted on 01/21/2015 6:42:50 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: RnMomof7
In order for Calvinism to make any sense at all it is important that the doctrine is explicated with precise, well-defined terms and exacting and rigorous logic.

The saints that Catholics revere, when given reverence in the correct way, are not revered in any way like what the pagan deities were revered or idolized.

If you're going to demand high rigor to support your particular viewpoint, then you should give the same consideration to opposing viewpoints as well.

78 posted on 01/21/2015 6:43:08 PM PST by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: Claud

“Syncretistic” Maybe the Jews were “syncretistic” when they came up with that idea about monotheism. They just borrowed it from the Egyptians. That tale about the flood...it came from Gilgamesh.


79 posted on 01/21/2015 6:45:11 PM PST by virgil (The evil that men do lives after them)
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To: MamaB

The tactics are common among cults and false religions...there must always be a degree of fear for leaving.....forgetting that when God calls us “out” He has something for us ahead which cannot be so until we “move” our feet.


80 posted on 01/21/2015 6:45:48 PM PST by caww
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