Ave Maria!
Posted on 01/01/2015 1:00:37 PM PST by NKP_Vet
Edited on 01/04/2015 10:16:18 AM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]
An excerpt from my book Mary-A Catholic Evangelical Debate–which will be re-published next year.
I can remember soon after I moved to England (and still a convinced Evangelical) hearing a German Catholic refer to Mary as Mutter Gottes. I don’t know German and thought he was calling Mary “Mother Goddess”. I was suitably horrified and not really surprised that this Catholic actually referred to Mary as the Mother Goddess. Only when I expressed my dismay did a friend explain that I had misunderstood. The German was using the term “Mother of God”. I tell the story to make two points. First is the reminder of how easy it is to misunderstand the viewpoints of others. We often disagree with what we think they believe rather than what they really believe in the same way that I disagreed with what I thought the German said, rather than what he really said. This instant disagreement based on our honest misunderstanding can then stymie any further discussion. The second reason I relate the story is because it introduces the term “Mother of God.” It was a term he used naturally, but from which I still recoiled.
I was dismayed by the term “Mother of God”, but I probably hadn’t stopped to ask myself why. I suppose some Christians are dismayed by our use of the term “Mother of God” because they imagine that we Catholics elevate Mary so much that we even think she was pre-existent to God the Father. This is not what Catholics believe. The logic for our use of the term is simple. Jesus was God in human flesh. Mary was his mother. Therefore Mary is termed “Mother of God.” This term theotokos was affirmed at the Council of Ephesus in the year 431. The Council upheld the title as a way of defending the true nature of Jesus Christ the God-Man.
In 431 the Council of Ephesus affirmed the title “Mother of God” or “God-bearer”, but they didn’t invent it. The term had already been in use for hundreds of years. For example, around the year 189 Irenaeus writes, “The Virgin Mary, being obedient to his word, received from an angel the glad tidings that she would bear God.” It’s important to remember that Irenaeus knew Polycarp who had been instructed by the Apostle John, so this is a very early and important witness to the attitude of the early church to Mary. The teaching of the apostles was still echoing clearly in Irenaeus’ day. He wouldn’t have taught anything contrary to their teaching.
When the title the ”Mother of God” was first formally affirmed by the church it was a bulwark to the right doctrine about Jesus. This is a very important point because, as Catholics, we believe that the correct understanding of Mary’s role and identity continues to be a strong support for the proper understanding of Jesus’ identity and role. If Mary is ignored or side-lined it is easy for Christians to treat Jesus as merely a good man. Graham Leonard has put it this way, “It is a fact of history that, if true honor is not paid to Mary as the Mother of God, people put Our Lord in her place as the highest of creation rather than adoring him as God Incarnate.” Isn’t it sometimes the case that in popular Christianity we get so chummy with Jesus that we forget he is also the incarnate God? It is true that Jesus is our friend and brother, but it is also true that he is Lord and God. (John 20:28.)
The mystery of Mary being the Mother of God is reflected in the mystery of every human birth. As we contemplate the mystery of conception, gestation and birth we are taken into the mystery of the incarnation in a fresh and profound way. We are not separate from our mothers. Instead our lives are intertwined with theirs. Our mothers make us who we are. In Jesus’ case Mary contributed to his genetic make-up. She conceived, carried and bore him. She nursed, nurtured and loved him. If we really believe that Jesus was the God-Man we believe that he was half-Mary. As the early Christians meditated on this truth they came to understand the true importance of Mary. She was an integral part of God’s plan of salvation. So Hippolytus, around the year 217, writes, “To all generations they [the prophets] have pictured forth the grandest subjects for contemplation and for action. Thus, too, they preached of the advent of God in the flesh to the world, his advent by the spotless and God-bearing [theotokos] Mary in the way of birth and growth, and the manner of his life and conversation with men.” Early Christians like Hippolytus came to see that Mary was an integral part of who Jesus is. It is true to say that we would not have Jesus without Mary. Because of this we want to challenge non-Catholics about their historic neglect of Mary. She is honored by the vast majority of Christians in both the Catholic and Orthodox traditions, and has been from the beginning of the Christian Church. Why do non-Catholics neglect Mary so much?
Because they're under a strong delusion.
Ave Maria!
Hope you don't mind my paragraph formatting here. It makes it easier for old eyes like mine to read. Great article!
An excerpt from my book Mary-A Catholic Evangelical Debate–which will be re-published next year. I can remember soon after I moved to England (and still a convinced Evangelical) hearing a German Catholic refer to Mary as Mutter Gottes. I don’t know German and thought he was calling Mary “Mother Goddess”. I was suitably horrified and not really surprised that this Catholic actually referred to Mary as the Mother Goddess. Only when I expressed my dismay did a friend explain that I had misunderstood. The German was using the term “Mother of God”.
I tell the story to make two points. First is the reminder of how easy it is to misunderstand the viewpoints of others. We often disagree with what we think they believe rather than what they really believe in the same way that I disagreed with what I thought the German said, rather than what he really said. This instant disagreement based on our honest misunderstanding can then stymie any further discussion. The second reason I relate the story is because it introduces the term “Mother of God.” It was a term he used naturally, but from which I still recoiled.
I was dismayed by the term “Mother of God”, but I probably hadn’t stopped to ask myself why. I suppose some Christians are dismayed by our use of the term “Mother of God” because they imagine that we Catholics elevate Mary so much that we even think she was pre-existent to God the Father. This is not what Catholics believe. The logic for our use of the term is simple. Jesus was God in human flesh. Mary was his mother. Therefore Mary is termed “Mother of God.”
This term Theotokos was affirmed at the Council of Ephesus in the year 431. The Council upheld the title as a way of defending the true nature of Jesus Christ the God-Man. In 431 the Council of Ephesus affirmed the title “Mother of God” or “God-bearer”, but they didn’t invent it. The term had already been in use for hundreds of years. For example, around the year 189 Irenaeus writes, “The Virgin Mary, being obedient to his word, received from an angel the glad tidings that she would bear God.”
It’s important to remember that Irenaeus knew Polycarp who had been instructed by the Apostle John, so this is a very early and important witness to the attitude of the early church to Mary. The teaching of the apostles was still echoing clearly in Irenaeus’ day. He wouldn’t have taught anything contrary to their teaching.
When the title the ”Mother of God” was first formally affirmed by the church it was a bulwark to the right doctrine about Jesus. This is a very important point because, as Catholics, we believe that the correct understanding of Mary’s role and identity continues to be a strong support for the proper understanding of Jesus’ identity and role.
If Mary is ignored or side-lined it is easy for Christians to treat Jesus as merely a good man. Graham Leonard has put it this way, “It is a fact of history that, if true honor is not paid to Mary as the Mother of God, people put Our Lord in her place as the highest of creation rather than adoring him as God Incarnate.” Isn’t it sometimes the case that in popular Christianity we get so chummy with Jesus that we forget he is also the incarnate God? It is true that Jesus is our friend and brother, but it is also true that he is Lord and God. (John 20:28.)
The mystery of Mary being the Mother of God is reflected in the mystery of every human birth. As we contemplate the mystery of conception, gestation and birth we are taken into the mystery of the incarnation in a fresh and profound way. We are not separate from our mothers. Instead our lives are intertwined with theirs. Our mothers make us who we are. In Jesus’ case Mary contributed to his genetic make-up. She conceived, carried and bore him. She nursed, nurtured and loved him. If we really believe that Jesus was the God-Man we believe that he was half-Mary.
As the early Christians meditated on this truth they came to understand the true importance of Mary. She was an integral part of God’s plan of salvation. So Hippolytus, around the year 217, writes, “To all generations they [the prophets] have pictured forth the grandest subjects for contemplation and for action. Thus, too, they preached of the advent of God in the flesh to the world, his advent by the spotless and God-bearing [theotokos] Mary in the way of birth and growth, and the manner of his life and conversation with men.”
Early Christians like Hippolytus came to see that Mary was an integral part of who Jesus is. It is true to say that we would not have Jesus without Mary. Because of this we want to challenge non-Catholics about their historic neglect of Mary. She is honored by the vast majority of Christians in both the Catholic and Orthodox traditions, and has been from the beginning of the Christian Church. Why do non-Catholics neglect Mary so much?
Is a cupon for those glasses included with the popular Self and Self Alone kit seen below?
Why do catholic writings always read like a legal brief in a derivatives and securities fraud case? Christ was actually simple.
trying to explain your concept to the creator of the Universe. Mazol Tov !
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
So you deny that God’s Spirit is within the spirit of the believer and has access to teach the heart the things of God, especially those things found in the scriptures? ... How very Catholic of you.
Because heretics and skeptics abuse reason.
I don’t think Catholics are heretics and skeptics. Just far too legalistic and longing for monarchy. No need for all the complexity they push out. Feels like a kid and some intricate explanation to try to cover something up.
Some battles have to be fought with sharpshooter, some with nukes.
You KNOW that Christ was "actually simple" by what verse in Scripture? Just curious.
Am I writing like a "legal brief in a derivatives and securities fund issue" or am I keeping it simple enough for you? I hope it's the latter. :o):o)
LOL.
What is made up here is that any part of Jesus' genetic makeup could have come from Mary, by theorists who could not simply admit that they did not know, and that nothing in the Bible supports their theory as to how the pure, sinless flesh of Jesus was created except by the same way that God created Adam's flesh--without any pre-existing woman who possessed only the sin-stained flesh of her progenitors--and that flesh furthermore without the element imparting the features of maleness.
Why do non-Catholics neglect Mary so much?
The answer to such an disingenuous question is very simple: only by persistent committed trust in Jesus The Anointed One alone can any human--including Mary--approach The Father through the reconciling blood and righteousness of His Only Begotten Son: "No man cometh unto The Father except by Me."
That is, Mary has her honorable status in the mind of the non-catholic, secured by bearing Jesus, bur a misplaced faith in Mary cannot save and reconcile a human to The Father, nor would her righteousness if attributed to her adorers be sufficient to cover their sins. She is not of the Godhead.
Rather, she was/is favored as was Abraham, Moses, and David, with whom The LORD Jehovah covenanted on the basis of their saving faith. Her place of honor is among these heroes of the faith, even though not mentioned in the Book of Hebrews. But she was/is not Divine, all-knowing, pre-existent from before the foundation of the earth, of the substance of Jesus, or to be worshipped as The High and Mighty Everlasting God.
The easy comfort of Self and Self Alone doesn't change the fact that it's the route to destruction just like relying on Self was what caused Eve to fall.
Satan loves that lie, the first one he successfully got humans to believe and makes it nice and easy for those who share Satan's pride in Self and Self Alone.
Relax, enjoy the ride down the highway. The reward for the go along to get along refusal to work out your Salvation with fear and trembling is hearing the same Jesus Christ such folks defy say, "I never knew you" in spite of their protestations that they've always been good fishin' buddies with Jesus.
“You KNOW that Christ was “actually simple” by what verse in Scripture? Just curious”
Sermon on the mount there sparky. I can only imagine if the Vatican would have written that masterpiece of simplicity. It would have been created by a high synod, run by artillery lawyers, oops, canon lawyers, vetting it against the holy convocation of the third gathering of funny hat men in Constantinople, under the auspices of the Roman emperor, to decide what people 400 years earlier saw and thought.
Sermon on the mount. Light, simple, fast, bullet point. Like Reagan. The Roman church edicts,,, more like a 4 hour Castro speech, or an Obama answer at a press conference.
“because fools will argue until they’re blue in the face over a direct statement by Jesus Christ Himself like, “this is my body”,”
John 10:9 King James Version (KJV)
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
I don’t know how to break this to you, but he wasn’t a “door” with a knob and hinges that you could knock on. Yes, be clearly said “I am the door”. Symbolism, and its ok. The meaning is what he was teaching us, not a nutty magic show.
So Mary was not Jesus' mother? And all that genealogy stuff was nonsense? Because Jesus being son of David, son of Abraham, son of Adam, son of Man, comes via being son of Mary.
Genesis 3:18 speaks of the seed of the woman being the enemy of the seed of the serpent. But if Mary was not Jesus' genetic mother, Jesus was not the seed of the woman.
Meant to ping you to the above.
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