Posted on 12/14/2014 11:57:21 AM PST by ealgeone
The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.
Mark the date. I don’t believe it.
Why not ask the same of FRoman Catholics who post hit pieces on Protestantism and the Salvation Army, for example?
So after you are born again, you can go out and commit mortal sins without repentance and you are still saved and granted salavation?
What effect does Christ’s judgment have when you die?
Could you quote the Scriptural reference that states that Marywas free from original sin?
Could you quote the Scriptural reference that states that Mary is the Queen of Heaven?
Could you quote the Scriptural reference that states that Mary was assumed, bodily, into Heaven.
Of course not, because they don't exist.
Roman Catholicism is based on lies and apparently it is easy to keep people eyes closed to the truth.
Start here:
that's great! that makes you 1 of the 30,000 protestant denominations who TRY to interpret scripture to fit your own needs. Down the block from you, maybe three or four houses, is another group of the ekklesia...but they have come up with a slightly different view from yours......and further down the block, there is another.....oh well, you get it.
The above was confirmation the Roman Catholic church officially embraced semi-pelagian doctrine.
http://carm.org/semi-pelagianism
Semi-Pelagianism is a weaker form of Pelagianism (a heresy derived from Pelagius who lived in the 5th century A.D. and was a teacher in Rome). Semi-Pelagianism (advocated by Cassian at Marseilles, 5th Century) did not deny original sin and its effects upon the human soul and will; but, it taught that God and man cooperate to achieve man's salvation. This cooperation is not by human effort as in keeping the law but rather in the ability of a person to make a free will choice. The semi-Pelagian teaches that man can make the first move toward God by seeking God out of his own free will, and that man can cooperate with God's grace even to the keeping of his faith through human effort. This would mean that God responds to the initial effort of person, and that God's grace is not absolutely necessary to maintain faith.
The problem is that this is no longer grace. Grace is the completely unmerited and freely given favor of God upon the sinner; but, if man is the one who first seeks God, then God is responding to the good effort of seeking him. This would mean that God is offering a proper response to the initial effort of man. This is not grace but what is due the person who chooses to believe in God apart from God's initial effort.
Semi-Pelagianism says the sinner has the ability to initiate belief in God.
Semi-Pelagianism says God's grace is a response to man's initial effort.
Semi-Pelagianism denies predestination.
Semi-Pelagianism was condemned at the Council of Orange in 529.
Precisely. That means she is the God-giver or if you prefer God-bearer. No one is making her a "demi-god", by the way.
In Luke 11:28. Read the Holy Scripture every once in a while and you, to, will be closer to Christ your Savior.
not true at all!! These threads are entertaining, thought provoking, educational, examples of good sarcasm, fairly good natured, full of surprises, relatively harmless, and informative....for example, soon everyone will agree with me as it should be.
He founded it, we named it....close to the same time.
“Precisely. That means she is the God-giver or if you prefer God-bearer. No one is making her a “demi-god”, by the way.”
Mary did not give Messiah. God gave Messiah. Mary bore Messiah.
She is certainly fashioned as a demigod by Catholicism. It is sad.
>>so after you are born again, you can go out and commit mortal sins without repentance and you are still saved and granted salavation?<<
I don’t think anyone here believes such nonsense. The statement above shows a lack of knowledge of God’s Grace. It also shows a lack of understanding of the Grace God gives a believer to live their lives in obedience to Him. Christ promised The Comfortor, The Holy Spirit and the promise was fulfilled at Pentecost and continues to this day and days to come.
God also promised He would conform us to the Image of His Son.
You can check this out in Romans chapter 8.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?version=NABRE&search=Romans%208
Faith is an action. We act according to the Object of our faith. This means we walk as Christ walks.
Your statement above is an example of someone who as unrepentant is put out of the assembly of believers after first approaching alone, second with witnesses and then before the assembly if still recalcitrant. And if this person repents he or she is to be restored.
In some cases they never return. As the Apostle John tells us, those who have left us were not of us.
Did I address your antinomian straw man? Such people were condemned in the early church as were Pelagians and semi Pelagians. Of which was condemned at the Council of Orange. Yet Trent embraced semi pelagianism.
My take-away on this thread is that non-Catholic Christians want people to call them jerks. Which is not normal; it is a fairly negative insult, and most people don’t like it. Evidently the non-Catholics posting on this thread do enjoy it, though. That is problematic on several levels.
now there is a strange protestant stirring of the pot...everyone leaves Heaven......everyone leaves eternal bliss for what???????
“I do care, and am thankful, that my name has been written in the Lamb’s Book of Life. It cannot be erased.”
Your answer partially: “written in the book at Baptism, of course”
Christians are written in Jesus’ [Lamb’s] Book of Life.
If Catholics wish to not participate in wanting their names to be in the Book of Life, and be written in a book at Baptism instead, no problem.
We prefer the Biblical path.
speak about falling into deception......
>>Precisely. That means she is the God-giver or if you prefer God-bearer. No one is making her a “demi-god”, by the way.<<
I’d be careful with the “God-giver” connotation. Blessed Mary was clearly called “mother of Jesus” in the NT. That is why many Protestants and Evangelicals stop right there and especially why most Messianic Jews stop right there. For God’s Law specifically says “that ye turn not aside therefrom to the right hand or to the left;”. The subject of the quote came from Joshua 23:6 where YHWH tells him not to stray from His direct commands. The early Jewish Christians knew this and inspired by the Holy Spirit gave us what we know of Mary. We are to assume no more no less.
I know some Roman Catholics see Protestants and Evangelicals as being disrespectful of Blessed Mary mother of Jesus. But we are not. We do respect and look to Mary as an example of faith a Christian should emulate as there are other numerous examples of godly lives to examine. But we do so from the revealed Word of God.
An example of straying to the left or right is when Israel, after witnessing wonderous miracles and deliverance from God, decided Moses was dead as he entered the presence of God on Sinai. Not long after they crafted a golden idol. They thought they were honoring God as they thought Moses was dead. Even high priest Aaron joined in.
God said He is a jealous God. He is to receive all the adoration, prayers, worship and glory. Sinai is evidence of such.
Back to “God-giver.” I think even a casual look at the early church fathers puts a hold on this title. For if you examine their writings on the Logos begotten not made I think puts this title of giver of God as not an orthodox belief. Even for the post apostolic age.
Annalex stated:”>>He said, venerate other saints as well, for they also hear the Word and keep It<<”
Luke quotes Jesus Christ saying:
Luke 11:28
“But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.”
That part about veneration is not there. You added it.
I’ll stick to Luke’s version.
>>now there is a strange protestant stirring of the pot...everyone leaves Heaven......everyone leaves eternal bliss for what???????<<
The strange stirring is clearly referenced below. Iscool was not making this up.
Revelation 19 King James Version (KJV)
19 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
My take-away on this thread is that Catholic cultists want people to call them jerks. Which is not normal; it is a fairly negative insult, and most people don’t like it. Evidently the Catholic cultists posting on this thread do enjoy it, though. That is problematic on several levels.
Makes just as much sense... and is absurd like much of the postings from the cult!
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