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Is Prayer/Veneration/Worship to Mary Biblical?
self | 12-14-14 | ealgeone

Posted on 12/14/2014 11:57:21 AM PST by ealgeone

The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: bible; blessedvirginmary; catholic; mary; mystery; mysterybabylon; prayer; rcinventions; vanities; vanity; worship
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To: Elsie

John 2:6-10. Read the Holy Gospel every once in a while and you, too, will become Catholic and taste peace.


1,621 posted on 12/17/2014 8:34:53 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex; EagleOne
That is your opinion. The original question was, does the Holy Catholic Church ever contradicts the Holy Scripture? You suggested the sinlessness of Mary. But the contraiction that we see is with your ideas, not with the text of the Scripture as written.

No, it's not with someone's ideas or interpretation, but shown throughout Scripture that ALL humanity is under the curse of sin, ALL have sinned and there is NONE as righteous as God no matter how humanly "good" they are.

1,622 posted on 12/17/2014 8:35:05 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: annalex

Matter of fact, they say exactly what I said ...

Luke 1:43 - “lord”, used of Messiah.
Exodus 3:2 - OT not written in Greek.

Mary was bearer/mother of Messiah.


1,623 posted on 12/17/2014 8:35:57 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion ( "I didn't leave the Central Oligarchy Party. It left me." - Ronaldus Maximus)
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Comment #1,624 Removed by Moderator

To: Elsie
Leviticus 5:17-19 [...] probably just another of those Jewish traditions

Yes, more or less, it is. The Old Testament Law was absent grace and was given the Jews in order to give them simple rules easy to follow. Christianity arrives to a deeper understanding of sin as willful defiance of God, not an ignorant mistake. Note, also that the Hebrew Law is very lenient in this case.

1,625 posted on 12/17/2014 8:40:06 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: Elsie
Mary has to handle approximately 139 'requests' per second!

So? Everything is possible with God.

1,626 posted on 12/17/2014 8:40:50 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex
>So, what happened at Cana?<

Catholicism takes one verse, one verse out of context, and builds a whole theology around it. It is the absolute worst form of Biblical interpretation there is. Too many false doctrines have been built upon OVT and the catholic account of a super Mary is one of them.

The purpose of this account is recorded in John 2:11.

This beginning of His signs Jesus did in Cana of Galilee, and manifested His glory, and His disciples believed in Him.

It's all about Jesus. It is not about Mary.

Notice whose name is not mentioned in this passage from John 2:1-11....Mary.

She is referred to as:

the mother of Jesus 2x

His mother 2x

her 1x

Woman 1x

The first two, the mother of Jesus and His mother put the attention back on Jesus.

After verse 5 her involvement in this passage is over.

On the other hand, Jesus is mentioned by name six times in this passage.

He is referenced another seven times as either He, His or My.

This passage is ALL about Him. He is at the beginning of the account, the middle and the end. He is the focus of the passage. Mary, the disciples, and the wedding are just the backdrop to the story.

1,627 posted on 12/17/2014 8:41:43 PM PST by ealgeone
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To: redleghunter
Jesus is in the center of the Hail Mary prayer?

He plainly is. Can you read English?

1,628 posted on 12/17/2014 8:42:33 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex; Elsie
>Mary has to handle approximately 139 'requests' per second!<

So? Everything is possible with God.

God yes....Mary no.

1,629 posted on 12/17/2014 8:42:39 PM PST by ealgeone
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To: Resettozero; vladimir998
Good to see you, Vladimir.

John 19,, John 6, Luke 22, 1 Cor 11 are "corruptions of Holy Scripture"? Why should we take you Protestants seriously?

1,630 posted on 12/17/2014 8:44:52 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: Resettozero
I presume you are one of the assigned RCs for this evening because of the number of your postings lately. Please try harder tonight to give honest responses instead of the usual rehearsed, canned, or formulaic kneejerk quips.

Believe me, if anyone on Earth were assigning someone to defend the Catholic church, it would NOT be me...There are nights when I just love to sit here and do this...that's all.

Every response that I give, however is as honest as I can be...a little sarcasm once in a while, but I've been a Catholic longer than most on here have been alive. I am troubled by those who have chosen to follow a path that will only lead them to disaster and I try my best to convince them to really seek the truth within the Catholic church.

I certainly realize that there are differing opinions on many facets of religious teaching, however I consider the Catholic church the only true interpreter of the bible....everything else is either in error or incomplete.

1,631 posted on 12/17/2014 8:47:09 PM PST by terycarl ( common sense prevails over all)
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To: metmom

It was not clear from the context? Can you do word searches?

Luke 11:27-28.


1,632 posted on 12/17/2014 8:47:51 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex

“John 19,, John 6, Luke 22, 1 Cor 11 are “corruptions of Holy Scripture”? Why should we take you Protestants seriously?”

Why INDEED?!


1,633 posted on 12/17/2014 8:47:53 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: annalex

Discuss the issues all you want, do not make it personal.

Mindreading is a form of making it personal


1,634 posted on 12/17/2014 8:49:27 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: metmom

Since Jesus is God, Mary is mother of God.


1,635 posted on 12/17/2014 8:49:37 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: boatbums

It is so because you know how to capitalize “all”?


1,636 posted on 12/17/2014 8:52:19 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: CynicalBear
NO it's not. I do my own butchering and have since I was 18 years old. The blood is drained from the carcass prior to evisceration. The red from the meat is simply tissue fluids which may contain some red corpuscles but is NOT blood. Blood is a much more complex fluid. Me too...of course the blood is drained from the carcass, but small veins, capillaries, etc retain blood. I realize that this isn't what the Bible is pointing out but nevertheless, there's blood there
1,637 posted on 12/17/2014 8:52:53 PM PST by terycarl ( common sense prevails over all)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Luke, however, wrote in Greek and also (surprise) read Greek, including the Septuagint. Yet Luke did not write “mother of Christ” — which would be “mother of Messiah” but “mother of my Lord”. Complain to him, or to Elizabeth; I read the Holy Scripture as written.


1,638 posted on 12/17/2014 8:55:17 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: ealgeone
Catholics do not pray to statues...we buy them, they are made out of cement, they, in and of themselves have no power to do anything but make good paperweights. Does Elsie have to post the pictures again??

they are nice pictures, but meaningless...you have no idea what was in the minds of anyone in the pictures. I've been there and done that, I've done it for over 70 years and not once, never, did I pray to the statue....prayed through Mary and the saints...yes

1,639 posted on 12/17/2014 8:57:55 PM PST by terycarl ( common sense prevails over all)
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To: ADSUM; EagleOne
This explains the infallibility of the Catholic Church on matters of Faith. We have faith in Christ's church that it will only present the Truth (and God will prevent false teachings of God's message.) This was written by a former atheist. And so a Catholic can know divine revelation, as distinct from human opinion, by looking to the Church, which speaks with Christ’s voice and cannot lie. For a Protestant, only the Bible itself contains God’s infallibly inspired words, so he desires to assent to that. But since the Bible must be interpreted by someone, the closest he can come to assenting to biblical teaching is assenting to his own fallible interpretation of it. And assenting to yourself is no assent at all. Your focus seems to be on what you believe and do not understand RC point of view and their faith. You make judgments based on your opinion.

That "atheist" needs to do a little more work on his logic skills!

He is contending that a Catholic can know divine revelation because men in the Catholic church read the Bible, interpreted it and say what it teaches. He ASSUMES this church speaks with "Christ's voice" and can never be in error because they are "infallible" - because they say they are.

But, a non-Catholic Christian - for we know that not all Christians are just Catholic OR Protestant - can go to that SAME Divinely-inspired, infallible Scripture and read the words from God and with the illumination of the indwelling Holy Spirit, be led into all truth. He is NOT assenting to himself, but to what God clearly teaches in his sacred word.

The Catholic relies on his priest to "get it right" and teach him, the non-Catholic relies on the Holy Spirit, going directly to the source. No "middleman" needed. This blarney about the Bible needing to be "interpreted" by someone only applies to the TRANSLATION of the Scripture's original language into the one the learner understands. With study and a earnest desire to learn, anyone can know the deep things of God. It doesn't have to be outsourced to someone who promises they are infallible.

The former atheist has been hoodwinked into handing off his faith to fallible men who convinced him they were smarter or more "holy" and he placed his trust in them instead of God. The Catholic church HAS erred, made mistakes, messed up, changed its doctrines and has had more than a few miserable examples of human "piety" as top leaders - if that is speaking with Christ's voice, then it's a pretty shaky foundation to base ones eternity on.

1,640 posted on 12/17/2014 9:00:16 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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