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PopeWatch: Wittenberg Candidate Pope?
The American Catholic ^ | December 3, 2014 | Donald R. McClarey

Posted on 12/03/2014 7:10:14 PM PST by ebb tide

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To: BipolarBob
"Catholics used to burn apostates at the stake."

Allow me to blow your mind a little bit -- EVERYBODY used to burn apostates at the stake! Shocking huh?

21 posted on 12/04/2014 3:42:18 AM PST by Wyrd bið ful aræd (Asperges me, Domine, hyssopo et mundabor, Lavabis me, et super nivem dealbabor.)
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd
" EVERYBODY used to burn apostates at the stake! "

Well that makes it alright then (not that I believe that). So why did the Catholic Church stop doing this? I mean being THE ONE TRUE CHURCH and all (founded by Peter no less!)?

22 posted on 12/04/2014 5:06:13 AM PST by BipolarBob (You smell of elderberries, my friend.)
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To: ebb tide
Sandro Magister at his blog Chiesa has a fascinating look at the relationship of Pope Francis with the evangelicals who have made such devastating inroads among the Catholic populations in South America:

Listen!

Is that the sound of an ox being gored??

23 posted on 12/04/2014 5:15:35 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Resettozero

With friends like this; who needs enemas?


24 posted on 12/04/2014 5:16:18 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd
EVERYBODY used to burn apostates at the stake!

Here; on the pages of FR; we merely heat them toasty warm.

25 posted on 12/04/2014 5:18:03 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: metmom

“Show me where I called Catholics the *enemy*”

Now that’s funny.


26 posted on 12/04/2014 5:45:25 AM PST by NKP_Vet ("Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus")
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To: BipolarBob
Well that makes it alright then (not that I believe that). So why did the Catholic Church stop doing this? I mean being THE ONE TRUE CHURCH and all (founded by Peter no less!)?

The bigger question is *Why did they START it?*

Just WHERE in Scripture is the church admonished to label people heretics and treat them in such an abominable way?

Where is the sanction to torture for confessions?

Where is the sanction to burn at the stake those who disagreed with the gospel, or the apostles?

The question of why they stopped it seems to be that they lost the power to stop it. Secular power caused a stop to it. Not because the RCC because inherently better, because, based on the carrying-on of Catholic priests and the RCC's dealing with it (covering it up) AND the comments on FR from FRoman Catholics for a longing of the return to the Inquisition, it would still be practiced today if they had the ability to do so.

27 posted on 12/04/2014 5:54:04 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: NKP_Vet

Show me.

Provide the links and post numbers.


28 posted on 12/04/2014 5:54:41 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: ebb tide
It is beyond comprehension why, considering the interest that the Pope has in the evangelicals, he seeks to implement changes in the Church that will only increase the number of Catholics leaving the Church and becoming Evangelicals.

His attacks on doctrine via his personally selected henchmen and his open contempt for traditional Catholicism and its "petty rules" suggest that he may also have jumped ship.

29 posted on 12/04/2014 6:13:05 AM PST by BlatherNaut
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To: boatbums
Instead of bemoaning "losing" nominal Roman Catholics to Evangelical Christian faith, they should be rejoicing

No Catholic is going to "rejoice" at the abandonment by another of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Christ Himself.

"And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

30 posted on 12/04/2014 6:20:15 AM PST by BlatherNaut
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To: BipolarBob; metmom
Why did they START it?"

*They* didn't. Hammurabi's code specified burning as the appropriate sentence for certain crimes. Ancient Hebrew law also specified burning as the penalty for certain crimes (remember Tamar in Genesis? There's your scripture link). The Romans also burned people, and the Roman empire carried the practice into the Christian era, when the emergent Christian kingdoms continued to use it as a matter of course. In short, burning has been used for as long as there have been written laws, and probably before that. To say that burning people was a "Catholic thing" is like saying that hanging pirates was a "British thing." Everybody did it, because it was an accepted form of execution since forever.

"So why did the Catholic Church stop doing this?"

Why did Protestants stop doing it? Why did anyone stop doing it? Changing sensibilities, changing opinions...Whatever the reason burning as a form of execution in both secular and religious cases fell out of practice long before it was struck from the books. IIRC, some countries (Germany and Holland I think?) kept it in the law code into the mid-1800's.

31 posted on 12/04/2014 6:22:26 AM PST by Wyrd bið ful aræd (Asperges me, Domine, hyssopo et mundabor, Lavabis me, et super nivem dealbabor.)
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To: metmom
>>Interesting stats about South America ping<<

Interesting indeed.

32 posted on 12/04/2014 6:23:57 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: BlatherNaut
"And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

I find the words Roman Catholic missing from this verse. In fact there is no indication that this verse is about a denomination at all. Organized religious leaders are the ones that sent Jesus to Pilate anyway.

33 posted on 12/04/2014 6:27:44 AM PST by BipolarBob (You smell of elderberries, my friend.)
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd
Why did anyone stop doing it? Changing sensibilities, changing opinions...

The ever changing and morphing church? That would be incongruous with inerrant and Spirit led church, wouldn't you agree?

34 posted on 12/04/2014 6:30:19 AM PST by BipolarBob (You smell of elderberries, my friend.)
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To: Alex Murphy
evangelicals who have made such devastating inroads among the Catholic populations in South America...those who are passing from one membership to another are not usually the most lukewarm in their faith, but the most fervent.

May God bring such devastation, and more, upon every community on this planet.

Indeed. You would think that liberal Prot denoms would be seen as the greatest threat, not conservative evangelicals, but the preeminence of Rome is the priority, not holy fervent Christian faith.

35 posted on 12/04/2014 6:39:37 AM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: BipolarBob
"The ever changing and morphing church? That would be incongruous with inerrant and Spirit led church, wouldn't you agree?"

You're comparing apples and oranges while simultaneously doing violence to historical context.

Dogma does not change. Disciplines can change, but this is not even a case of discipline. The short answer to your question is -- since ancient times it practically ubiquitous for religion and state to be inseparably intertwined. Again, the Roman empire brought this reality into the Christian era. The first seeds of separation of Church and state came with the Church having its own courts to handle certain categories of crimes. naturally, these courts applied the same penalties that were common and always had been. Fast forward hundreds of years and all Churches, not just the Catholic Church, started to get out of the business of being intertwined with the state, and the secular states took over the responsibility of handling crime. Whether or not the Church had it its own courts has nothing to do with Doctrine or Dogma. It was simply a feature of the times. Things unrelated to Doctrine simply changed.

Asking why this happened is like asking why monarchy fell out of fashion; there are hundreds of years of social, political, technological, and philosophical changes that all roiled and clashed and combined to change what people considered the norm. I might write a couple dozen books about it sometime. Or not. If I do I'll send you an autographed copy.

36 posted on 12/04/2014 7:08:45 AM PST by Wyrd bið ful aræd (Asperges me, Domine, hyssopo et mundabor, Lavabis me, et super nivem dealbabor.)
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd
Mal. 3:6 I am the Lord, I change not.

Prov. 28:5 Evil men do not understand justice, but those who seek the Lord understand all.

37 posted on 12/04/2014 7:27:35 AM PST by BipolarBob (You smell of elderberries, my friend.)
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To: BipolarBob

I take it you’re suggesting we all move into a cave and start eating mastodon?


38 posted on 12/04/2014 7:30:25 AM PST by Wyrd bið ful aræd (Asperges me, Domine, hyssopo et mundabor, Lavabis me, et super nivem dealbabor.)
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd
Matt 4:4 "Man shall not live by mastadon bread alone but by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God."
39 posted on 12/04/2014 7:34:35 AM PST by BipolarBob (You smell of elderberries, my friend.)
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd; BipolarBob

As I asked probably on another thread, just where in the teachings of Jesus or anywhere in the NT is there sanction for torturing *heretics*? For burning at the stake those who disagree with the church?

For that matter, where in the OT is there that kind of sanction for dealing with *unbelievers*. There are only two (IIRC) very specific sins for which burning by fire is commanded by God and neither of them is for religious dissent.

It is unconscionable that the Catholic church tortured and killed people in the name of Christ for dissenting from it.

For those who claim to be Christ’s representatives here on earth, to commit such an atrocity is a heinous evil and yet instead of Catholics denouncing such history of their church, they blame shift, excuse it, and some still even call for a return to the Inquisition and advocate the killing of *heretics*.

All I can say is that it’s a GOOD THING that the RCC has had its wings clipped. It’s a sad day when the secular world has more integrity than an organization which claims to be Christ’s body here on earth.

One true church, my foot.


40 posted on 12/04/2014 8:10:03 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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