Posted on 10/30/2014 7:16:19 AM PDT by Keli Kilohana
For the record: John 6:53 “Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.”
Also for the record:
Luke 23:40-43 “And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
Poor guy never did have a chance to get off the cross and go to Mass.
Romans 10:9 “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”
“Poor guy never did have a chance to get off the cross and go to Mass”
You’re right but no where did Jesus say he was going to heaven. You assume that. But even if he did and the thief mde it to heaven without being “born again” or baptised, so what? God can do anything he feels like doing and causing the Big Big was one of them.
You’re right but no where did Jesus say he was going to heaven. You assume that
We all know Jesus could and does forgive sinners, as He delegated that power to the Apostles (Mat18:18). He certainly could have forgiven the man on the cross next to Him.
I bet the poor sinner was never baptized either, but all of these things are management decisions, and we are just in sales.
Here is the context of Romans 10:9. Others have said it better, so here it is:
“Thou shalt be saved. To confess the Lord Jesus, and to call upon the name of the Lord, (ver. 13.) is not barely the professing of a belief in the person of Christ: but moreover implies a belief of his whole doctrine, and an obedience to his law; without which the calling of him Lord will save no man. (St. Matthew vii. 21.) (Challoner) -— This passage must be understood like many others of this apostle, of a faith accompanied by a good-will ready to perform what faith says must be practised; as it is required in this very place, that what we believe in the heart, we should confess with our mouth. (Estius)”
Also, demons know that Jesus is Lord and God raised Him from the dead. They have said so. In fact, Jesus commanded them NOT to reveal His divine nature. So, proof texting doesn’t work.
But who would be his translator?
So there we go. Right back to square one. lol
That said, this latest kerfuffle does appear to have been caused by faulty translation (as has been explained better on another thread, and as one can see when eyeballing more directly the original Italian language which he spoke) for there is difference between the word demiurge as Bergoglio used the term in Italian, and capital "D" Divine.
That was clarified well enough also when he basically repeated or restated his argument there, pointing at the difference between a creator and the Creator, with Bergoglio saying that God was capital "C" Creator, not just some limited, lower-case creator of the physical world, as some ancient Greco-Roman (or other) philosopher would describe God or 'gods' -- those having powers, but those powers being in some manner circumscribed, or limited.
What this results in, in this context, is having philosophical acceptance for what could be termed --- theistic evolution -- Old Earth Creationism -- Intelligent Design, etc.
I don't see what the problem with that is, although I do understand those of two opposing camps could be reaching down to the ground about now to pick up rocks to hurl at me. Please...everyone...don't take that "go get your own dirt" punchline as a directive, or at least be a bit more gentle in how yous' share it. ;^')
That was my own take on things, from grade school onwards, without having those terms defined for me, or having been exposed to comparative arguments which insisted that there must be an either/or choice, as in acceptance for some amount of validity for ToE (Theory of Evolution) -- or else a woodenly literal "6000 years" of time since Creation of all elements, and/or the earth itself also.
I wasn’t reminding you of anything.
I was commenting on your self-righteous condemnation of a Christian pastor to hell just because he doesn’t follow your belief system.
I think God can do that, but men cannot.
So you condemn Pastor Terry to hell because of something you made up? Or do you have a link to where the Pastor called Jesus a liar?
No I don’t think so.
But there is a link to you quoting Jesus as saying “if you don’t my blood and drink my blood my blood you have no life in you.”
Jesus doesn’t like that.
If you are a born again Christian with a personal relationship with Jesus, you can go to Him right now and confess your sin and he will forgive you. Or do you have to wait until you can confess to a priest so that he can forgive you?
Zeal is a good thing if applied properly.
It didn't exist for several centuries after Jesus was around.
the Vicar of Christ, is known as the Supreme Pontiff, or more simply, the Pope (Bishop of Rome).
To you maybe, which is fine if you believe that, but to Christians and Jesus...no Biblical evidence.
Supreme, Vicar? Sounds like mighty fine titles but un Scriptural. Kinda like the Pharisees of old that Jesus had some pretty stern words for. They liked fancy titles and clothes too.
By not accepting His church, your are morally free to ignore the teachings of His church. You are not bound to anything any Pope says.
Thank you, but I am quite aware that it is not "His" church and that I can continue on being a born again Christian with a personal relationship with Jesus.
And even though the Catholic denomination says I have to be a part of it for salvation, I have received Jesus' Biblical salvation and am quite content to believe His words for that.
In short, no Catholic, no problem
A very true statement!
But I will still speak out when Catholicism tries to subvert the church, the true body of Christ.
So, how in the world can the Pope force you to do anything?
Why ask that, I never said he could?
As Vicar of Christ, the Pope is responsible to preach the Gospel message.
Then he should stick to that.
Instead of declaring that Islamic Muslims have the same god as Catholics (not true at all) and declaring evolution and Big Bang theory are right and praising homosexuals.
He built the Church on Peter (You are Peter and upon this rock...).
No He didn't, His church is built on the Rock, the Rock that is Jesus.
That's been shown over and over again here on the RF.
Christ calls all people to Himself.
True, very good statement!
We are called to unified in Christ. Therefore, unity is what we should achieve. Unity under the Vicar of Christ.
You were doing so well until that last sentence, but I made it true.
The thief on the cross?
I'm gobsmacked at seeing that...
God can do anything he feels like doing and causing the Big Big was one of them.
Coffee didn't kick in?
Oh and BTW, the thief was born again on the cross. You didn't notice? You can find it in the NT.
Who is subversive, the one who follows the Church instituted by Christ at the Last Supper, and has been led by Peter and his successors, or the one who has decided to go their own way?
The “Church,” the universal (catholic) Church, is made of all Christians. All Christians MUST have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, or there Christianity is hollow.
You choose not to believe the Roman Catholic Church, as that is your right as a human being. Faith is a gift from the Holy Spirit, and as you seek the Truth (not just a what, but a who) and honestly try to live out the Great Commission, who am I to judge?
However, we will have to agree to disagree about what you consider fact, and what is verifiable through the centuries.
I hope and pray you continue to have the zeal for Christ you demonstrate. I also hope and pray you will consider looking at books by Dr. Scott Hahn, Tim Staples, and Jimmy Akin, who, like you, have the fire for Christ, and come from evangelical backgrounds.
They just haven’t heard of a Baptism of Desire or a Baptism of Blood.
Or a perfect Act of Contrition.
Really...Really???
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
So according to you and your pope, Adam evolved from some other life form...Yet when Adam received the breath of life, he became a living soul...Adam's ancestors didn't get the breath of life or they didn't becoming living souls???
Bible doesn't say anything about Adam's mother and father living in the garden of Eden with him...Surely Adam had (not perfectly human) siblings and cousins...What happened to them???
Why did God have to create Eve out of a rib of Adam??? Surely God could have breathed life into one of Adam's female cousins to make her a living soul as well for his mate...(Were all of Adam's ancestors NOT living??? Zombies???)...
Why doesn't your religion write its own version of Genesis to fill in the idiotic, ridiculous gaps that it has created by falling for the evolution scam???
And if your religion wrote the scriptures as you always claim, why did it write a nonsensical book like Genesis which your religion doesn't even believe???
You’re right. And what the Pope said on the Big Bang has been the church position for years. When the priest who came up with the theory was asked didn’t it conflict with his beliefs he said “no at all, God causes everything”. Great answer.
We're all still waiting for your official translations on all the other things your pope has said which you guys claim is a mistranslation...
The verses you quote tell you to use the bible as your weapon against Satan...Yet you guys claim it is Mary that does your fighting for you...Is it any wonder you can't avoid Satan's influence in your religion???
“So according to you and your pope, Adam evolved from some other life form...Yet when Adam received the breath of life, he became a living soul...Adam’s ancestors didn’t get the breath of life or they didn’t becoming living souls?”
You are showing your ignorance of Catholicism. God made everything, but we don’t know how many years ago God made the first man, but we do know he didn’t have a soul until Adam and Eve. We also know he made the universe and everything in it, but again don’t know how long ago. But the world as Christians know it started with Adam and Eve.
References for the material are at the bottom of the page...
I think we all understand Catholic infallibility...We just don't buy it...
One person's opinion...That's all...And it's wrong...
Not my official translation, as I don’t speak Italian! Talk about a disaster.
I don’t claim he was mistranslated, just I didn’t know what was actually said. Google Translate is OK, but far from perfect.
There are a couple of posts out there discussing the use of the English word “divine,” when the word “demiurge” seems more consistent with the rest of the speech.
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